A sign God does not exist or he has a wicked sense of humor!

[big shmooz]

Or yours is NOT seeing the One that is there

Yes, it is about "all" of God's word, "Old and New Testaments" in which I have total and complete faith in.

I understand you believe this to be true. My point was letting G_D's word decide. This is why I brought verses to illustrate how G_D said he operates. I see that the new test contradicts these verses & I have attempted to show why this is the case by demonstrating this in my posts. As I said, I let G_D's word speak for itself. We all make our choices what to believe & not believe. But my point here is to show people a different viewpoint in regards to this.

You mentioned in the previous post that I missed the boat. (that the messiah already came) I say, we should look at Messianic prophecies by which the Prophets made known when the Messiah will have in fact come. I believe I clearly demonstrated that these prophecies are unfulfilled. I kind of think this really answers the question as to whether jesus was the messiah or not. As we say "the proof is in the pudding". The only claims Christianity has to jesus being the messiah, are all based on intangibles. But the prophets spoke of tangibles & in these jesus was clearly lacking. The Prophets did not speak in vain. Their purpose was in fact so we should be able to recognize which man is indeed the Messiah. If a person fails in fulfilling these prophecies he thereby shows he is in fact a charlatan.

Please do not take this as an insult. I am merely making an observation.

[jogar84]

I understand you believe this to be true. My point was letting G_D's word decide. This is why I brought verses to illustrate how G_D said he operates. I see that the new test contradicts these verses & I have attempted to show why this is the case by demonstrating this in my posts. As I said, I let G_D's word speak for itself. We all make our choices what to believe & not believe. But my point here is to show people a different viewpoint in regards to this.

You mentioned in the previous post that I missed the boat. (that the messiah already came) I say, we should look at Messianic prophecies by which the Prophets made known when the Messiah will have in fact come. I believe I clearly demonstrated that these prophecies are unfulfilled. I kind of think this really answers the question as to whether jesus was the messiah or not. As we say "the proof is in the pudding". The only claims Christianity has to jesus being the messiah, are all based on intangibles. But the prophets spoke of tangibles & in these jesus was clearly lacking. The Prophets did not speak in vain. Their purpose was in fact so we should be able to recognize which man is indeed the Messiah. If a person fails in fulfilling these prophecies he thereby shows he is in fact a charlatan.

Please do not take this as an insult. I am merely making an observation.

lol sorry man, i'm not a believer, but thats pretty much an insult to Christians. Why bother with this Judaism vs. Christianity debate, when both your religions are enemies of Islam. Now thats a debate i'd love to hear instead of this Christ-bashing.

[meteamo]

Interesting discussion here. I've enjoyed reading every post in this thread. Thanks everyone.

No matter what the religion, if you really think about it, most religions believe in love and respect. If we love and respect everyone else, we would basically do what was spoken in the 10 commandments of what not to do (among some other things), which to some is common sense but for others, they need to follow some rules and guidelines. And that is what makes everything so good ... diversity. Celebrate diversity in everything including that of religion. If we had no diversity, life would be boring. It's kind of like a baseball league full of nothing but Barry Bonds and Pedro Martinez or a basketball league full of Shaqs ... that may be interesting and intriguing at first but would get boring really fast.

[big shmooz]

lol sorry man, i'm not a believer, but thats pretty much an insult to Christians. Why bother with this Judaism vs. Christianity debate, when both your religions are enemies of Islam. Now thats a debate i'd love to hear instead of this Christ-bashing.

I apologize to you & anybody else who took my comments in that way. I truly did not mean to convey my thoughts as an insult by putting down anybody else's belief. I meant my points only in a way as expressing what the understanding of G_D's scriptures would result in, based on the verses I brought .

I am not sure what you mean by both our religions being enemies of Islam. If you mean that our religions do not have the same beliefs as Islam, in this you are of course correct. No religion believes as another religion believes or else they would both be the same faith.

[big shmooz]

Interesting discussion here. I've enjoyed reading every post in this thread. Thanks everyone.

No matter what the religion, if you really think about it, most religions believe in love and respect. If we love and respect everyone else, we would basically do what was spoken in the 10 commandments of what not to do (among some other things), which to some is common sense but for others, they need to follow some rules and guidelines. And that is what makes everything so good ... diversity. Celebrate diversity in everything including that of religion. If we had no diversity, life would be boring. It's kind of like a baseball league full of nothing but Barry Bonds and Pedro Martinez or a basketball league full of Shaqs ... that may be interesting and intriguing at first but would get boring really fast.

You bring up an interesting viewpoint & on the surface it seems to make sense. But if you understand the goal of the religious belief, you come out with a different picture of things.

Let me explain what I mean. The main goal of all religions is to become close to G_D & to do good things in how we treat others. If G_D is saying "this is the way I want things done", then this is the goal. Therefore it's not about being not boring or boring. It's about serving G_D. If X is the proper way, then X is how we should do it. If Y is the proper way, then Y is how we should do it.

A better analogy with baseball would be, is it alright if one team be allowed to have a rule that if they score one run regardless of what the other team scores, they win. & another team must score more runs in order to win. Basically my point is, if the rules are different for different people. the question is where is the fairness in it.

I am not saying there is no diversity. But within G_D's rules is where it should occur.

[timzeig]

I understand you believe this to be true. My point was letting G_D's word decide. This is why I brought verses to illustrate how G_D said he operates. I see that the new test contradicts these verses & I have attempted to show why this is the case by demonstrating this in my posts. As I said, I let G_D's word speak for itself. We all make our choices what to believe & not believe. But my point here is to show people a different viewpoint in regards to this.

You mentioned in the previous post that I missed the boat. (that the messiah already came) I say, we should look at Messianic prophecies by which the Prophets made known when the Messiah will have in fact come. I believe I clearly demonstrated that these prophecies are unfulfilled. I kind of think this really answers the question as to whether jesus was the messiah or not. As we say "the proof is in the pudding". The only claims Christianity has to jesus being the messiah, are all based on intangibles. But the prophets spoke of tangibles & in these jesus was clearly lacking. The Prophets did not speak in vain. Their purpose was in fact so we should be able to recognize which man is indeed the Messiah. If a person fails in fulfilling these prophecies he thereby shows he is in fact a charlatan.

Please do not take this as an insult. I am merely making an observation.

The insult is towards God Himself and your written words have condemn you already!

And surely, this will be revealed to you in God's time.

I will not continue this back and forth debate because I refuse to fuel the fire :!:

[fenway389]

Isn't this how some wars get started?

[lautrec]

To Big Schmooz:

-Thanks for the reply to my post regarding your comments.

-I don't think I "put myself down" in my post to you, by humbly conceding

to your far more Old Testament learning; You are clearly more versed in the Old Testament than I, and I respect that.

-The main point you missed that I made is: I believe that Christ FULFILLED the requirements of the law. Jesus paid for sin with a Godly act of humility and contrition and indescribable grace and love. There, in my opinion, is NOTHING that can possibly contradict this fact based on empirical evidence.

You and I will agreeably disagree. I will support the Iraeli nation and the Jewish peoples, because I do believe they were God's chosen people. I pray for their nation and I pray for the veil to be lifted from their eyes.

I cannot hope to know what God is thinking nor what the reasoning for everything He has done. He's God, I can live with that. He's in charge and I accept that and worship Him through His Son.

[big shmooz]

The insult is towards God Himself and your written words have condemn you already!

And surely, this will be revealed to you in God's time.

I will not continue this back and forth debate because I refuse to fuel the fire :!:

Whilst I disagree with you on that "I insulted G_D", since I was merely making an observation of how a person must live up to his claims. If I tell you that if you sell me your house that you are going to receive 100,000 dollars from me & I fail to deliver, would you consider me to be a truthful person?

Regardless of the above, I respect your wishes of not continuing this debate.

[big shmooz]

To Big Schmooz:

-The main point you missed that I made is: I believe that Christ FULFILLED the requirements of the law. Jesus paid for sin with a Godly act of humility and contrition and indescribable grace and love. There, in my opinion, is NOTHING that can possibly contradict this fact based on empirical evidence.

I actually did not miss it. In fact I noted it. I will explain something I hope you will understand. The law is not something one fulfills. It is a law. It is meant to be obeyed.

Let me explain with an analogy. There is a traffic law that says that on a red light, one should not pass through it. By obeying this, you are not fulfilling the law. Rather you are obeying it.

I have also shown based on the prophet Ezekiel that sin has not been paid for. For if that were the case then G_D would not command that sin offerings be brought in the third Temple that the Messiah will rebuild. (for reference of this read Ezekiel chapters forty through forty eight). I believe it is mentioned that sin offerings must be brought at least 5 times. If it was true that jesus had paid the price for sin, why would G_D demand this? This is why (amongst other reasons) Judaism contends that the new test contradicts Hebrew Scriptures. As I said earlier, when the latter contradicts the earlier, the earlier is the one to be followed.

I don't understand how Christianity can ignore this when Scripture is so clear on this issue. I have asked this of many Christians over time & have never been given an answer to this other than "I will get back to you". (Nobody ever has)

Edit: I take that back. One persons did get back to me saying that this was a commemoration & hence the sin offerings are brought. There are however 2 problems with this that I can think of.

1) The Scriptures themselves do not bear this out. In fact based on the verses in Ezekiel we can see that this is an ongoing thing.

2) Even if it were so (which as I explain in objection number 1 can't be) this would not matter. One does not bring empty offerings that serve no purpose. & if jesus indeed took away sin then this offering would be without purpose. G_D does not desire offerings that are in vain.

Btw... on a sidenote this person later on recanted what he had said to me & in fact is no longer a Christian. He now keeps the 7 Noachide laws. (the covenant G_D made with Noach (Noah) after the flood with all mankind.)

These 7 laws are as follows...

Do not murder.

Do not steal.

Do not worship false gods.

Do not be sexually immoral.

Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.

Do not curse God.

Set up courts and bring offenders to justice.

Any Gentile that keeps these laws is guaranteed by G_D to have a share in the world to come. (eternal life)

[cb]

I find it stupid to believe god would save you from sheer idiocy. God let him get mauled because if he was stupid enough to do something like that, he deserved to die.

Brutal, I know, But I just had to say it.

-cb

[big shmooz]

I find it stupid to believe god would save you from sheer idiocy. God let him get mauled because if he was stupid enough to do something like that, he deserved to die.

Brutal, I know, But I just had to say it.

-cb

I see it more as if he was trying to test G_D. Had he just been merely foolish, perhaps G_D would have protected him. Notice I say "perhaps". I can't say for sure.

[krawhitham]

Isn't this how some wars get started?

YEP