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Yankee4Life

The Pete Rose decision: Your thoughts?

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I decided to give one more shot to try and generate some baseball talk in here because to be honest I really enjoy this website and have nothing but respect for it. The site means a lot to me.

SUBJECT: The Pete Rose decision.

While it was always a long shot that Pete Rose was going to be reinstated by Major League Baseball, this week commissioner Rob Manfred erased all chances of Rose being welcomed back into the inner circle of baseball forever.

All I can say about that is this is the best decision baseball has made in many, many years.

Rose supporters continually say he belongs in the Hall of Fame because he's the Hit King. They'll run to baseball reference.com and quote you his statistics from his rookie year to his last year in the majors. But what they are not understanding here is the numbers he put up during his playing career is not the issue here. Granted, if you just look at his personal statistics he should have been in Cooperstown long ago.

Rose was a gambler. When he was still a player he bet on baseball and when he was the manager of the Reds he bet on his own team. Gambling is still and always will be the number one offense anyone can do in baseball. How serious does baseball take this? It's been ninety-six years since the infamous Black Sox scandal but every time there is even a hint of anything that has to do with gambling the movers and shakers of baseball get very nervous.

For example, Brooklyn manager Leo Durocher was suspended for the entire 1947 for his "association with known gamblers" by commissioner Happy Chandler. Durocher did not bet on baseball - not when he was a player or a manager but because he knew gamblers that was enough for Chandler to suspend him. In the early 80's Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were temporarily banned from baseball because they took jobs at a casino. Their jobs? To greet people who came in, shake their hands, say hi and take pictures and represent the casino they worked for at charity events. That job description was enough for Bowie Kuhn to ban both of them.

Superman turned into just a regular man when he was confronted with kryptonite. Baseball turns into a little kid who is scared of the dark when the lights go off when confronted by gambling.

Pete Rose was banned from baseball in 1989 by Bart Giamatti. He told Rose he had to reconfigure his life if he ever wanted to have a chance at reinstatement. Since that time Rose continually denied he bet on baseball until he was given a nice payout by a book company to admit that yes, he did bet on baseball. Rose also continued to bet on baseball after he was banned from the game. While that isn't illegal it is also something you should not do when you are trying to get back into baseball's good graces.

After twenty-six years baseball said enough was enough. Thank God.

Still, Rose supporters do not understand. Some of them might bring up Steve Howe. They'll say what about him, he was suspended from baseball seven times and finally banned from the game. What about him? That's true, that's exactly what happened but Howe was suspended for alcohol and cocaine abuse and that is why he successfully won his appeal when he was banned. All he trouble Howe got into during his playing days had nothing to do with gambling. That's why Howe got a longer leash than Rose.

Rose did this to himself. I can't fault baseball for keeping him out of the game because he hasn't proven all this time that he belongs back in.

I just thought of something while I was writing this. I never had the talent to play in the major leagues and the closest I got to being on a major league field was when I was sitting in the box seats. But I have a better chance of having a bust in Cooperstown then Rose does simply because I'm not banned from it.

 

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I'm of the opinion that if members of the Black Sox Scandal got lifetime bans that STILL hold because they ruined the integrity of this sport, Pete Rose is no different. Gambling is a big deal, especially if you are in a position where you can potentially alter the outcome of the games you participate in.

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Letting Rose back in would create a huge precedent that MLB does not want to encounter in future situations.  Coincidental, because I was a huge Big Red Machine fan when I was a kid, but I never really cared for Rose as part of that squad.  There was always something about him even evident to a kid.  He just seemed to arrogant and cocky, which I've never liked in anyone, let alone an athlete.  When you're given a gift, you should embrace it and not misuse it for your own good or display. I'll sleep okay with this decision.

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If the baseball commissioner wants to protect the integrity of the game, then he should ban Yasiel Puig, Jose Reyes, and Aroldis Chapman permanately without wasting time and money to conduct investigations. whether a court of law finds any of these players guilty of abusing women or not. I find the accusations against them more disturbing than a player gambling on baseball or using performance enhancing drugs. But I can almost guarantee that the commissioner will give these chodes merely temporary suspensions with or without pay because of some bullshit pleas from said players and their attornies, that their behavior toward women is more acceptable or tolerated in their home countries

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can't just ban people on accusations.  anyone can make accusations.  if they did that, i could get anyone i wanted banned.  but if they are true, i'm all with you.  

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No sport is perfect, but I do respect MLB for upholding their standard for those who cheat the game. Pete Rose disqualified himself when he crossed the line. I don't feel bad for him in the least because he did not do it in ignorance. He's a man, so he must man up to the punishment rendered and hold himself accountable. If he wants to set an example, let it be a reminder that nobody no matter how good they are as a player is above the standard set by the league. For the players Scotty mentioned, I have no idea what is written for those accused of physical abuse. If it qualifies as a lifetime ban, write it up, explain it to the players and play ball.

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The hall is a joke anyway. Sportswriters don't know crap about playing the game. It is a popularity contest like everything else in this country. 

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If the roid users get then Rose for sure does. But since the roid users don't Rose did ruin the integrity of the game... Still put them all in a separate room and explain why they are there, whether the best players on the Black Sox, Barry Bonds or Pete Rose...

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He did it

He doesn't think (or even come close to appear to think) what he did was a big deal

He still bets on baseball

I think others care more about him being in the hall then he actually does

"Rules is rules"

BRWiveY.jpg

 

 

 

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I agree that Rose does not belong in the hall of fame. Yes his numbers should have put him in there but he broke a cardinal rule by gambling then lying about it. Rules are put in for a reason. I also think that none of 

Roid era players should be inducted either. And as far as i am concerned Hank Aaron is still the home run king and not Bare Roid.  

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They won't let the all time hits leader back into baseball (or the hall of fame) but we can let all the druggie steroid users like Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, A-Roid, (just to name a few) back in !!! That's a good example to set for all the kids wanting to get into baseball AND it probably wouldn't affect the credibility of our sport !!!

 

 

 

 

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Personally I am fine with Rose being banned from being associated with a team or MLB in general. However, I think he should be in the HOF, as I believe Shoeless Joe should be.

You can even ban Pete from visiting the HOF (if he is not already), but I think they need to be included to tell the full story of baseball.

 

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The question isn't about the steroid users. But I agree that they shouldn't be allowed either.

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41 minutes ago, DaSteelerz said:

The question isn't about the steroid users. But I agree that they shouldn't be allowed either.

You're right. The question is not about them. It is about gambling.

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Does everyone know that the Hall of Fame and MLB are two separate entities? Sure they are closely linked but being banned from participating in professional baseball isn't the same as being banned from the Hall. But as a lifelong Reds fan that grew up with the poster of the 1976 Reds on my wall here are my two cents. Rose sat down and agreed to that ban right? Not only did he blatantly maintain a LIE for decades while continuing the same behavior that got him banned, he only came clean when he got a book deal and could make money off his "confession." If he really gave a crap about getting reinstated he would have came clean years ago. Let's not pretend he didn't have plenty of opportunities to do so.

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exactly.  and i'm all about forgiveness, but i also have to believe that it's sincere.  there's nothing sincere to me about anything that comes out of his mouth.

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On 12/22/2015 at 3:24 PM, Yankee4Life said:

You're right. The question is not about them. It is about gambling.

Which is the worse example to be setting for kids, drug use or gambling ???

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24 minutes ago, peterosefan said:

Which is the worse example to be setting for kids, drug use or gambling ???

A shiv to the eye or a shiv to the stomach? Neither.

It wasn't just gambling. It's gambling on baseball when you are employed by baseball. That is a form of corruption. I'm sure one doesn't have to spell it out to understand it. That's just how I see it.

It just hurts when it's such an enormous talent like Pete. My step-mom grew up a die hard Reds fan so I do respect the Big Red Machine and it's era, but sorry Pete, you just can't do that.

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you're asking if lying or cheating is worse.  neither. they're both dishonest and their profession dictates what the punishment is.  

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1 hour ago, peterosefan said:

Which is the worse example to be setting for kids, drug use or gambling ???

This has nothing to do with examples being set for kids. If a kid would actually want to find out why someone would become a permanent persona non grata when they are caught gambling on baseball all he has to do is do a little reading on the subject. I am not saying that drug use is no big deal because it is but in this case it is the lesser of two evils.

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4 hours ago, Homer said:

exactly.  and i'm all about forgiveness, but i also have to believe that it's sincere.  there's nothing sincere to me about anything that comes out of his mouth.


That's exactly what I think.
 

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I guess I'm late to the party and better late than never ...

I preface my remarks with that I come from Philadelphia, and Rose helped bring the city it's first World Series title. Nobody busted their @$$ more between the chalk lines than Charlie Hustle. AND my wife's family is from the Columbus area and are lifelong Reds fans, which makes the next paragraph less popular around the Xmas dinner table ...

There is ONE rule posted in EVERY professional baseball clubhouse (I've seen it in at least 5 places), it's the one about not betting on baseball if you play baseball. Pete broke it. Then he lied about it for ~20 years until it became profitable to admit it and sell the book. It's one thing to break the rule, it's another to continually lie for 20 years about it and I don't know which one is worse. MLB has banned Rose, and the HOF has a hand-in-hand policy that no player under a ban from MLB will be allowed to grace its halls. I think Pete wants his ban overturned not so much for the Hall than to be able to be around the game again, as a coach or instructor or one of these contrived "special associate advisor to the General Manager" titles, kinda like what Don Zimmer did for the Yankees and Rays or Yogi Berra did for the Astros for many years. But it can't happen. Kudos to Rob Manfred. Now excuse me while I try to dig out of my wife and in-law's doghouse. 

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2 hours ago, Jaxen said:

I guess I'm late to the party and better late than never ...

I preface my remarks with that I come from Philadelphia, and Rose helped bring the city it's first World Series title. Nobody busted their @$$ more between the chalk lines than Charlie Hustle. AND my wife's family is from the Columbus area and are lifelong Reds fans, which makes the next paragraph less popular around the Xmas dinner table ...

There is ONE rule posted in EVERY professional baseball clubhouse (I've seen it in at least 5 places), it's the one about not betting on baseball if you play baseball. Pete broke it. Then he lied about it for ~20 years until it became profitable to admit it and sell the book. It's one thing to break the rule, it's another to continually lie for 20 years about it and I don't know which one is worse. MLB has banned Rose, and the HOF has a hand-in-hand policy that no player under a ban from MLB will be allowed to grace its halls. I think Pete wants his ban overturned not so much for the Hall than to be able to be around the game again, as a coach or instructor or one of these contrived "special associate advisor to the General Manager" titles, kinda like what Don Zimmer did for the Yankees and Rays or Yogi Berra did for the Astros for many years. But it can't happen. Kudos to Rob Manfred. Now excuse me while I try to dig out of my wife and in-law's doghouse. 

You hit the nail right on the head.

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