dero Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I refuse to believe i am the only one that has noticed this....all in all it's a good roster, but i refuse to believe i am the only one with this problem... have you noticed how the major league teams will call up minor league pitchers with heavy stats but have poor control, and that, their first year is normally 2-8 8.00 era in other words an awful season causing that team to have a bad year. unless there was a "secret" update fixing this "secretly", I can prove that this happens in my dynasties on a regular basis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I refuse to believe i am the only one that has noticed this....all in all it's a good roster, but i refuse to believe i am the only one with this problem... have you noticed how the major league teams will call up minor league pitchers with heavy stats but have poor control, and that, their first year is normally 2-8 8.00 era in other words an awful season causing that team to have a bad year. unless there was a "secret" update fixing this "secretly", I can prove that this happens in my dynasties on a regular basis... What in the world does "heavy stats" mean? And rather than whatever your "secret" is supposed to be implying, just come out and make your ludicrous assertion so I can laugh at it and be done with you. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dero Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 you seriously have a problem, dude, it appears that if anyone points out a problem with your roster, you automaticly, have a problem with them...unless it was the payroll thing, which would have made you look like a idiot had you got mad at someone pointing that out.. I know what your deal is, but either way this is a issue rather you want to believe it or not... and by secret i mean, that you proclaim you don't have this problem, but if you use the same rosters as me, then obviously you do. ---- and clearly you have a problem with me, because why would you take the time to post to this topic, if you don't even have this problem?, and I assure you that i do not care if you "laugh" at me over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 you seriously have a problem, dude, it appears that if anyone points out a problem with your roster, you automaticly, have a problem with them Riiiiiiiight....which is why I've been issuing updates to address issues people have brought up. Nice try, kid, but this argument doesn't hold much water. Better go fetch a better pail. I know what your deal is, but either way this is a issue rather you want to believe it or not... If it was, you wouldn't have to be begging for someone to agree with you. Thanks...I needed the laugh and you provided it promptly. Well done! GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 and clearly you have a problem with me, because why would you take the time to post to this topic, if you don't even have this problem? DUH!!!! Because the topic IS ABOUT MY ROSTER SET!!! Careful, Sparky, you're digging yourself into a big hole of stupid. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dero Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 lol begging?, how about i just take pictures of my dynasties to prove you wrong......and please i beg you to give me a topic where you aren't asshole and addressing a issue about a bug on your roster, except a payroll topic. but anyways i'm off to prove you wrong. then you can "laugh" at that. and the main reason i put this topic on another post is because it's doubtful people are going to read all those long post's in the other topic thus, that problem going unnoticed "so nice try "kid" but that argument doesn't hold water" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzone Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 dero, where in north carolina are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 lol begging?, how about i just take pictures of my dynasties to prove you wrong Please do. And this will prove that YOU are experiencing this...if it were a real problem, then others of the THOUSANDS who have downloaded the roster would have mentioned it. So, congratulations on whatever you think you'll "prove." UGH!!! The pitch description thing is my screw up. I had messed something up and pulled a backup out, but the backup was before I edited the pitch descriptions to make them accurate. They had gotten reset to none for some reason. I'll get this fixed today. GH Damn...this just isn't going well for you. Keep trying though. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dero Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 ok now i admit some of these pitchers don't have a lot of innings pitched, but these photos are taken after 30 games into the dynasty, and if you wan't to complain about them I can easily sim the rest of the dynasty, because it's not like these photos are rare, these minors are always like this... Valdez called up by the giants. Loewen called up by the O's mcbride called up by the braves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzone Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 you know, if dero's having such a horrible time with your roster, and having a mini-thread war with you, maybe he shouldn't use it at all if it's such a majorrrr problem. dero, where in north carolina you from? Maybe GForce can make a housecall? Would that make everything better? sheesh lol..im all up in this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 you know, if dero's having such a horrible time with your roster, and having a mini-thread war with you, maybe he shouldn't use it at all if it's such a majorrrr problem. No joke. He keeps seeking others to jump on board and can't find them...wonder why not. I wonder what it will show when I post pictures from my dynasty that disprove this. Hmmmmmmm.... BTW...McBride...6 walks in 21 innings? Hardly bad control. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzone Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Gforce, would you like to take a look at my roster set. I plan on releasing it in a few days. It's basically all the team packs i've released,including a few updates along with team logos,portraits. oh yeah, and it replaces all of AAA.lol.i guess it's a total minors' nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Gforce, would you like to take a look at my roster set. I plan on releasing it in a few days. It's basically all the team packs i've released,including a few updates along with team logos,portraits. oh yeah, and it replaces all of AAA.lol.i guess it's a total minors' nightmare. I wouldn't really be able to look it over until later in the week, but if you can wait I'd be glad to. Least I can do for all you've done for this community as well. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dero Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 lol @ me offering proof then you both changing the subject, this is my lost post about this topic, obviously you know it's a problem and you choose to ignore it, and fuzz, i do not care what you have to say, obviously you stick with your fellow modder, making anything you have to say to me incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzone Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I refuse to believe i am the only one that has noticed this....all in all it's a good roster, but i refuse to believe i am the only one with this problem... have you noticed how the major league teams will call up minor league pitchers with heavy stats but have poor control, and that, their first year is normally 2-8 8.00 era in other words an awful season causing that team to have a bad year. unless there was a "secret" update fixing this "secretly", I can prove that this happens in my dynasties on a regular basis... you read that? That's the quote you left. It's insulting and rude and that's why im even in this thread. BEcause the way you go about it is by being rude. "I refuse to believe..."...."secret" update fixing this "secretly" you sound like a moron bro. What you think this is? You do realize that Gforce,me, and anyone else do not have to do what we do. Why should gforce even waste his time trying tro help you?? The way you look at it is that he's trying to DISPROVE you. That's your problem, no one elses. and just for the record, i have never once spoken to GFORCE until this thread. So what are you talking about? I guess me and Gforce are secretly in cahoots, huh? And i guess Gforce is disregarding the whole Roster Scandal? bro, you been watching fahrenheit 9/11 too many times. Your attitude is incorrect so if you're going to maintain an incorrect attitude, then blah right back at ya. you know what i always find funny, how people always claim "this is my last post in this thread" and sure enough, they're right back frantically clicking the REPLY POST button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverineman Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I've noticed it happen a few times in my dynasties. In the current one I have, pitchers like Scott Kazmir, Merkin Valdez, Travis Blackley, Cliff Nagoette, Zack Greinke, Adam Loewen, and a couple other prospects have ERAs over 8 and are in the majors still. I'm in late June so it could turn around for some of them. So I see where dero is coming from with this. I don't really think there is anything to do to stop this from happening. If the control of all the minor league guys is raised so they don't get crushed when called up, all the minor league prospects are gonna be rated way too high(with the bar thing) and then every team will call up every good prospect they have. And if you lower their star rating to lower their total rating, they won't top out to what they should. I don't think this is that big of a deal, when I play against one of those pitchers I don't notice a huge control problem compared to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Tryed it out and what Dero mentioned is true. Rookie pitchers, are called up to soon and become the ace pichers with 8-9 ERA's. There are also way too many callups in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 lol @ me offering proof then you both changing the subject, this is my lost post about this topic, obviously you know it's a problem and you choose to ignore it, and fuzz, i do not care what you have to say, obviously you stick with your fellow modder, making anything you have to say to me incredible. LOL!!!! So let's see...you posting those images (the McBride one which goes against your claim of horrendous control, as I pointed out) is somehow "proof" this is a widespread problem, but my mentioning my dynasty not seeing any of this (and I can post pictures proving that as well), is not proof. Interesting logic. Then, you say Fuzz backing me is only because he's a fellow modder. Then why are the other thousands using the roster with this apparently HUGE problem (according to you, and only you), not saying anything, and haven't for months. A vast right-wing conspiracy. You've reached the point now where you just sound like the city fool, running around chasing pigeons and yelling that the world is coming to an end, hoping that because you're loud, someone put merit into what you're saying. Your rants are, however, quite comical. Please continue. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzone Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 you notice the difference dero between your posts and Wolverine's post? He's a lot more polite and composed. you're just rude. whether there's a problem with GFORCE Total Minors isn't the point. It's the fact you think he works for you or something. hey dero--you know Gforce doesn't work for EA right? He can't tweak game engines, rebuild game-design fundamentals and he can't send in an urgent memo for you to EASPORTS TEAM Weekly Board Meetings hoping to get you an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 well here is the questions of all questions, GForce is there any possible way to tweak this slight ... um ... glitch that is in your roster. Just constructive critcism. If not I can live with it. Thank you for listening TribeTime26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I've noticed it happen a few times in my dynasties. In the current one I have, pitchers like Scott Kazmir, Merkin Valdez, Travis Blackley, Cliff Nagoette, Zack Greinke, Adam Loewen, and a couple other prospects have ERAs over 8 and are in the majors still. I'm in late June so it could turn around for some of them. So I see where dero is coming from with this. I don't really think there is anything to do to stop this from happening. If the control of all the minor league guys is raised so they don't get crushed when called up, all the minor league prospects are gonna be rated way too high(with the bar thing) and then every team will call up every good prospect they have. And if you lower their star rating to lower their total rating, they won't top out to what they should. I don't think this is that big of a deal, when I play against one of those pitchers I don't notice a huge control problem compared to others. I did see this happen with Nageotte in one dynasty. The star rating is likely the reason it happens in the times that it does...the game rates star rating into overall rating, which is fine, so long as you use the player's current abilities to make your distinction. The game doesn't always do this. I've never seen it with Valdez. I saw it with Greinke a couple of times, but thought that was just because I thoroughly underrated him, which I adjusted. If you guys have seen this as well, I will look at it more closely. But if, as I suspect, the star rating is behind it, I may be powerless to fix it. But we'll see what there is to it. I wonder why I wouldn't have seen it if you guys say it is prevalent...perhaps because I tend to sim to mid-season in testing. Maybe they're getting sent back down before then, so I don't see it occur (since the roster display just shows stats for that level. I'll look at this more closely in the next few days. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I notice that problem mostly with Kris Honel of the White Sox, thanx GForce for looking into it, hopefully you will make a breakthrough :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 OK, I've spent most of my time late last night and this morning doing some tweaking and I think I've got it adjusted. The problem DEFINITELY is that the game engine's player value puts too much weight into the star rating. So an "awesome" guy in AA who shouldn't be ready, ratings wise, has an overall value that is much higher than his actual current readiness warrants. The game ignores this and calls him up anyway based on this misguided evaluation. The result? Pitchers who aren't ready getting teed off on. That leaves 2 choices? Cut the star ratings, which would destroy player progression, or just accept that the computer AI is going to call these guys up and try to adjust ratings so that they don't get slaughtered. I think I've done this. Looking at examples given earlier on, I ran to the all-star break in a sim, and here's what I have: Scott Kazmir (void since I control the Mets) Merkin Valdez (SF): 4-4, 4.38 Travis Blackley (SEA): 7 G, 4 GS, 3-1 3.12 Cliff Nagoette (SEA): 6-5, 3.46 Zack Greinke (KC): 4-7, 2.76 Adam Loewen (BAL): 3-3, 4.41 McCay McBride (ATL): 5-4, 4.78 Dan Meyer (ATL): 3-2, 5.47 The problem is that this leads to good major league pitchers being sent down as well. In Seattle's case, Hasegawa, Franklin and Meche are all in the minors for these guys. I need to head off to work, but what I think I will need to do is raise star ratings for veteran pitchers to raise their value as well. That may counteract the roster shuffle a bit. If not, then at least the guys who get called up will be better suited for the task. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForce22 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 So I just took Clint Nageotte of SEA, with a LOTS talent rating (4 of 5 stars). He has 3 pitches. The fastball obviously has 0 movement....gave his next two pitches movement of 10 (on the 100 scale). Gave all 3 control of 5 (again, out of 100), What happened to his overall bar? Still, I would say, about 60% full, better than the bars for Hasegawa and Villone, despite both having much higher current pitch ratings. THIS, my friends, is why the game's roster AI is so completely inept. Given the star rating impact, I would essentially have to cripple the top pitching prospects to prevent their being called up. All I can do is adjust the minor leaguers down as far as I can while still keeping them rated well enough to perform decently if they get called up. I looked briefly at Kerm's roster...how did he try and counteract this? By completely wiping out the star ratings. Nageotte was given an awesome rating (5 stars) and gets called up right away. But Blackley is given no stars. Sure, he won't get called up, but he'll also never develop. Scott Kazmir? No stars (he's also on free agents rather than a team, but that's a completely different topic). Merkin Valdez? None. Chin-Hui Tsao and Jeff Francis (top Rockies prospects)...some (2 stars). They don't get called up but they also will NEVER develop in a dynasty. That's the tradeoff, and it's one I am not willing to make...it would defeat the purpose of doing the rosters. Hope this provides more insight into the issue. I'll try to balance the ratings as well as I can, but the top prospects will reach the majors more quickly than is ideal...it's a game engine flaw and not something I can do a whole heck of a lot about. GH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Twins Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Hey there Mr. GForce... I have been using your rosters for a couple of weeks now...absolutley brilliant!! Iour league is seriously considering making the switch. Just wondering If I should wait for an update here? also very curious as to any formulas you might have used in creating player ratings and such so I might accuratley update players ratings here after the allstar break.. for my own personal franchise tweaking of course. Basically can we expect another update this year or should I quit holding my breath :oops: ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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