Yellow Submarines

[KenDammit]

Am I the only one who thinks Submarine pitchers should be outlawed in MLB? Thats the worst delivery I've ever seen and in MVP you can't even tell where the pitch is til it gets to the plate!@

Thank God I never played one of those guys during my days. Sorry, just had to vent.

[mflv]

That's better than those 50 mph knuckeballs.

[saimon33]

Disagree, i think it's awesome.

I hate knucklers.

Last night i face some guy name Zeinke or something like that. His curveball was like 55 MPH and was breaking all over the plate. Took me like 12 K's to hit it.

[mangabee]

First time I saw the submarine pitchers I was amazed actually. I hadnt played a baseball game since SNES MLB (98-99?) and it threw me off bad. Then about the knucklers.. first thing I had to do was go pitch a game with Tim Wakefield.

[Kev72As]

Bat against Chad Bradford. He is a submariner.

[cubsfaninfla]

Bat against Chad Bradford. He is a submariner.

Along with Mike Myers, and Byung-Hyun Kim.

[DarkEnigma510]

I've found that submariners are a good time to actually point the left hit stick downwards. You can hope and pray for a line drive that gets through the infield.

[Filthy57]

I owned Mike Myers a couple of days ago. :lol:

[JaFFiTh]

I owned Mike Myers a couple of days ago.

I pitched with him, struck out 2 in 1 IP Even the computer can't seem to swing against Myers, sweet eh!

[pedrospecialk]

Greinke's curveball is insane in this game, but it's nowhere near there in real life. I think they really overexaggerated it, as well as Wakefield's ability to be an effective pitcher right now. :?

[Gamingboy]

Thank God I never played one of those guys during my days. Sorry, just had to vent.

You played pro baseball? :?: :?:

[dassub]

I HATE batting against Kim, I tend to swing at every pitch no matter where it is because he takes forever!

[dassub]

Oh, and by the way. We all live in a yellow submarine.

(sorry for the deuce)

[StillFunkyB]

Greinke's curveball is insane in this game, but it's nowhere near there in real life. I think they really overexaggerated it, as well as Wakefield's ability to be an effective pitcher right now. :?

Greinke's curveball is what has him pitching in the pro's at age 21.

Pitching

Greinke has outstanding command of a wide repertoire. Although he can hurl his four-seam fastball in the mid-90s, he prefers to take a little off to disrupt a hitter's timing, or induce movement by varying his grip. His two-seam fastball has great late sinking action and his slider breaks hard and late. However, Greinke's mid-60s curveball is the pitch that draws the most attention, as it freezes even the most seasoned hitters. Greinke varies speed and grip on each pitch such that he never throws the same pitch to the same batter in a game and will even try an occasional quick-pitch. In his rookie campaign, Greinke was kept on a strict pitch limit, never starting an inning after reaching the 100-pitch mark.

[Hollywood]

Don't forget about the late and great Dan Quisenberry!

[KenDammit]

You played pro baseball? :?: :?:

lol, no but damn I wish I did. See, I could have been a tool and said yeah..some minor league ball..but nope. I'm only 23 and I played up until I was 18. Woulda went on to college and MAYBE made it into the minors but in my senior year of high school I messed my shoulder up pretty bad and no one really wanted me after that because I was being recruited as a pitcher and 3rd baseman.

[KenDammit]

What drives me insane about submariners is that if they are wearing a white jersey in the game, you can't really see the balls all that well...or I can't. I don't know if I get distracted or what, but i seem to NEVER see the ball until its right there. I just hold up and left or right and pray that I hit it solid...if I get enough runs he'll come out hopefully.

[The H]

KenDammit,

Kent Tekulve and Dan Quisenberry > you .

[KenDammit]

haha, and some dude that pitches for the Rangers, too. Don't know his name but man I hated facing him.

[Sidewinder]

Ahhh, the secret of my success. LOL I was RH submariner/sidearmer who threw mid 80s on my better days with alot of movement and control. What I found was that RH batters struggled and I could get in their kitchen with the tailing movement on their hands. I would actually throw a change there too, and if they hit it would pull it way foul. The Slider I would throw around the outside black depending on my count leverage. With two strikes I would start it over the outside third and let it move off the plate. Sometimes, a RH batter just couldnt keep his frontside in and you could live on the outside corner. I found that didnt happen as much as I moved up the career ladder. If a RH batter was off the plate, it would make it tough to throw over the inside corner because he would be setup for that, if he didnt dive into the plate to cover the outside corner. Some batters would actually lull you into false security on the outside corner by being so far off the plate that way and then dive in, but they were easier to jam too.

Mark McGwire was like that in college. He would be way off the plate fooling you into thinking you had the outside corner if you didnt know his weakness, which was on his hands. He liked to get extended. So we threw Sliders just off the outside black and then bust him in with tailing FBs. The result was usually jamjobs to the right side of the infield.

I found that when I was healthy and had my stuff, I could own RH batters because of the deception, ball movement, and location. However, the rub was that LH batters saw my ball just that much better than usual and I had to be almost perfect with my location. Trying to get inside was challenging and left little room for error because my FB could tail back over the plate and my Slider was flatter and would come right into his wheelhouse if I didnt get it inside or backdoor him, still the deception just wasnt there against LH batters compared to RH batter for me, being a RH sidewinder.

I really have enjoyed how these pitchers have been implemented in MVP. Very realistic with great ball movement physics and the inherent deception that comes from dropping down to same handed batters and them picking up the ball.

[cheez]

i've had more problems with greinke's curveball, than the submarine pitchers. i can't hit knuckle's at all either

[KenDammit]

i used to love hitting sidearm pitchers, because the ball is usually flatter. I could really adjust to inside outside, but i can't stand the rising motion of submariners. When I pitched i used to throw a low-mid 80's 2 seamer at a right handers hands in high school, hardly touched it. I had a pretty good curve that I would drop out and off the plate after that which they either reached for and tapped to a fielder or they completely missed. The ONLY thing that felt as good as a strikeout was making perfect contact with a pitch and just KNOWING that its gone. God, I miss those days.

[mvpmodder07]

I actually think guys like El Duque and David Cone are wildly effective b/c they can change arm slots. Im a senior pitcher/3rd basemen @ my HS. I throw over the top, 3/4 and sidearm on all my pitches. Nothing is more satisfying then having a guy down 0-2 and then dropping to the side and throwing a knucklecurve. His butt kicks out and at best he hits a weak grounder. Submariners are only effective b/c its a weird weird look at the ball. However if you work the pitch count and wear them down, the ball tends to rise and become EASY to hit. Last year I hit .600 against the 2 submarine guys in our league....it was awesom

[Sidewinder]

I have to disagree with mvpmodder. While the different arm angle is confusing to weaker same handed batters, it's really the movement, location, and change of speed which allow a sidewinder to succeed, just like an overhander.

Winnings 37 games in 3 seasons in college after I dropped down showed me that. It wasnt until I got to the 5th step in the minors that I started having trouble beating good hitters. But, that coincided with me hitting the weights hard and gaining velocity(high 80s), but I lost alot of movement, probably due to not enough throwing and stretching, and high 80s is just BP without movement to good hitters.

One thing though I remember is low minors batters making the adjustment to wood bats really was fun to get in their kitchen. Lots of firewood even though I was only throwing mid 80s. As you move up the ladder, a sidewinder will get the majority of his outs on the ground at the higher levels due to the sinking action. Better hitters will usually get the bat on the ball, so relying on the batter hitting the ball into the ground is what keeps a sidewinder around.

[KenDammit]

changing arm slots is effective, but as Sidewinder said, if you don't have movement, its gonna get shelled sooner or later. A good hitter waits on pitches, and while there aren't many around here in Kentucky that did that, if you face one, you better have some movement to fool them. Change of speed is the next most effective method. I was a 3/4 pitcher and its a pretty good slot to get good movement on fastballs and out-break on curves and sliders. Thats all my pitches were, 2, 4, cutter, slider, curve and the basic change up. Nowadays though, it hurts to throw a baseball even once, heh.