Billy Beane has won 1 playoff series

[Sean O]

PPOR. See, I can be flippant and cute, too.

The difference is, I don't make stupid generalizations and lies. Don't make things up, and you won't be called on it.

You have provided no proof for slander against David Ortiz, and you provided nothing to say that Beane lied about Mulder's health. So, why would anyone believe anything you say?

[krawhitham]

I don't think the Twins understood how good David Arias could be on HGH.

And you get all pissy when I say the same thing about your golden boy, go figure

Yes, they did. They almost got Beane to agree to take Jason Marquis instead of Haren and it's widely held that Beane lied about the extent of Mulder's injuries.

Widey? no where outside of St Louis

In the 5 years Theo has been the GM (or actually, the 5 years Theo's 'team' has been on the field), they've gone 459-340. In the 5 years prior to Theo, 446-363. Theo has spent $620 M. The prior 5 years, $423 M.

Theo has won 2 more World Series but by the Grace of God, a groundrule double gone arry and Senator Mitchell releasing Paul Byrd's name.

What is that about a 66% increase in pay, what was the league average increase for that same period of time?

[HardcoreLegend]

The difference is, I don't make stupid generalizations and lies. Don't make things up, and you won't be called on it.

You have provided no proof for slander against David Ortiz, and you provided nothing to say that Beane lied about Mulder's health. So, why would anyone believe anything you say?

Why so grumpy, Mr. Frumpy?

Glass houses much?

To me, Pujols is older than he's credited, so don't be surprised if age-25 is his peak year.

PPOR.

Back to Beane. Beane's legend was given greater 'mystification' by his ability to turn Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson into various players. For as well as he did in the Mulder trade, he BOMBED out in the Hudson deal.

Juan Cruz - gone for nobody in Brad Hasley

Dan Meyer - fringe MLB player

Charles Thomas - gone for nobody in J.D. Closser

Don't get me wrong. He's better than Ed Wade. I just don't think people really look at how middling his success has been for the amount of praise he has been given by the baseball community.

[KillerBs]

Don't get me wrong. He's better than Ed Wade.

Lies. Ed Wade is the best.

[/sarcasm]

Now, let's not get all whiny yall. I agree Beane is overrated, just not for the reasons that HCL says.

I really think that most of you are making the mistake of thinking that Beane's way and sabermetrics are new. All of this has been around for a lot longer than you think.

[HardcoreLegend]

I really think that most of you are making the mistake of thinking that Beane's way and sabermetrics are new. All of this has been around for a lot longer than you think.

Exactly. It's not like Billy Beane invented OBP.

[KillerBs]

If I can remember correctly, SABR (By the way, most of SABR has nothing to do with number crunching and stats and that sort of thing.), has been around since the late '70s/early '80s.

[Sean O]

Why so grumpy, Mr. Frumpy?

Glass houses much?

PPOR.

Be serious. You can't honestly believe saying "David Ortiz is on HGH" is the same as "to me (as in, my opinion), Pujols is older." One is a statement of fact, one is an opinion. 'To me' implies it is a person's opinion, while saying x is y is a statement of fact, one which you completely neglect to back up.

I mean, kraw is backing me up on this, and kraw has never agreed with me about anything before.

[HardcoreLegend]

kraw agrees with you. That should tell you something.

Be serious? You mean you were actually serious about Pujols being older than he actually is?

[KillerBs]

Be serious. You can't honestly believe saying "David Ortiz is on HGH" is the same as "to me (as in, my opinion), Pujols is older." One is a statement of fact, one is an opinion. 'To me' implies it is a person's opinion, while saying x is y is a statement of fact, one which you completely neglect to back up.

I mean, kraw is backing me up on this, and kraw has never agreed with me about anything before.

I can't believe I am saying these words, but, I agree with Sean on this one, too. Saying Ortiz is on HGH is different than saying "I think Ortiz is or has been on HGH."

I personally think that Pujols is older than he says he is. Have you seen him without his cap?

[Sean O]

kraw agrees with you. That should tell you something.

Be serious? You mean you were actually serious about Pujols being older than he actually is?

As usual, you change the subject without answering why you're wrong. This is the fourth post now, post proof that David Ortiz is using HGH.

[sportnut1486]

Ortiz was the same size in Minnesota as he is now..... unlike bonds, who was small in Pittsburgh

[HardcoreLegend]

If I can remember correctly, SABR (By the way, most of SABR has nothing to do with number crunching and stats and that sort of thing.), has been around since the late '70s/early '80s.

Very true. As far as in game usage, Tony LaRussa was one of the 'groundbreaking' managers to use statistical analysis for just about every aspect of the game. He was a big proponent of Pete Palmer's research and was viewed as a crackpot for it.

[Sean O]

Ortiz was the same size in Minnesota as he is now..... unlike bonds, who was small in Pittsburgh

As far as I can see, he wears a baggier uniform, but is still pretty huge. And in that second post, that's a gut. Not a six pack, a good old fashion gut.

[krawhitham]

kraw agrees with you. That should tell you something.

W.T.F.

[HardcoreLegend]

As usual, you change the subject without answering why you're wrong. This is the fourth post now, post proof that David Ortiz is using HGH.

Well, since we've completely gone away from Billy Beane:

1) David Arias' trainer busted for steroid smuggling:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763252

From Mitchell Report:

According to Davidson’s account of the incident, during further questioning Presinal admitted that he had packed the steroids but claimed that he carried them for Gonzalez, whom he helped to administer them. Davidson reported that Presinal also claimed to have assisted several other high-profile major league players in taking steroids. In our interview of him in 2007, Presinal denied that he made any such statements. He asserted that he has no knowledge of the involvement of any player in Major League Baseball with anabolic steroids or other performance enhancing substances.

From ESPN Article:

some of the top-shelf players he professes to have trained: David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Orlando (El Duque) Hernandez, Raul Mondesi, Pedro and Ramon Martinez, Stan Javier, Adrian Beltre, Ruben Sierra, Vladimir Guerrero.

2) David Arias' 'heart complications' during 'career year'

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...laying_it_safe/

HGH can cause raised blood pressure and heart disease

3) David Arias' jokes about steroid use (even though his trainer is connected to steroid distribution):

"I tell you, I don't know too much about steroids, but I started listening about steroids when they started to bring that (expletive) up," Ortiz told the Boston Herald. I started realizing and getting to know a little bit about it. You've got to be careful. I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don't do that anymore because they don't have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I'm off buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican (Republic). But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don't know. I don't know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it."

"I should use steroids just to see what's going on. Nah. I have a good family. I want to see my kids learn and develop. I think I'm having an OK career. So, I take a lot of Advils, but I think I'm going to stop taking them. They say it (expletive) your liver."

So, let me clarify...I have good reason to THINK David Ortiz is on steroids.

And, about Pujols' hair...cause there aren't men in this country going bald at the age of 27?

[HardcoreLegend]

W.T.F.

It was just a joke. :starwars:

[KillerBs]

And, about Pujols' hair...cause there aren't men in this country going bald at the age of 27?

Going?

But that's not all that makes me say that. I don't know if you have ever seen him up close, but he doesn't look twenty-seven. Again, this is pure speculation, based on gut feelings.

[HardcoreLegend]

Going?

Yeah, going. He's still got the power alleys going when he doesn't shave his head.

But that's not all that makes me say that. I don't know if you have ever seen him up close, but he doesn't look twenty-seven. Again, this is pure speculation, based on gut feelings.

I've seen him up close before (front row seats at PNC) but of course, you are entitled to your own opinion. Every document anyone has ever been able to dig up says he is 27 years old (this year). The only question he's ever faced has been by people saying he is 2 years older than he really is. Even so, are you saying you think by his face he looks 29 instead of 27?

[Sean O]

Well, since we've completely gone away from Billy Beane:

1) David Arias' trainer busted for steroid smuggling:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763252

From Mitchell Report:

...Davidson reported that Presinal also claimed to have assisted several other high-profile major league players in taking steroids.

So, this man has trained at least 10 high-profile Latino MLB players, and you believe he absolutely gave Ortiz steroids? So, he has managed to dope up every Dominican and Cuban he comes in contact with (without getting caught), or he singled out Ortiz (the guy who was already pretty large, and most likely to be under suspicion) for HGH?

From ESPN Article:

some of the top-shelf players he professes to have trained: David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Orlando (El Duque) Hernandez, Raul Mondesi, Pedro and Ramon Martinez, Stan Javier, Adrian Beltre, Ruben Sierra, Vladimir Guerrero.

So, not only are you saying that every one of those players is using PEDs, you're relying 100% on "professe[d] to have trained"? What other information do you have linking these two?

2) David Arias' 'heart complications' during 'career year'

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...laying_it_safe/

Correlation implies causation, I guess. This is a completely spurious bit of conjecture that doesn't make any sense. You think there is nothing else that could have caused this situation?

3) David Arias' jokes about steroid use (even though his trainer is connected to steroid distribution):

Which you haven't proven, and I expect a followup post with solid evidence linking the two.

..snip..

So, the guy who laughs and jokes about everything is laughing and joking about this topic. He says he's familiar with steroids, but understands the health risks, is already pretty good, and so feels no need to set a bad example to his kids or risk injuring himself.

What a monster.

So, let me clarify...I have good reason to THINK David Ortiz is on steroids.

If you do, you certainly haven't posted it. You have one possible link between a trainer who was involved in steroids who one other guy says might have provided to several major leaguers (without Ortiz's name coming up), a major logical fallacy in point #2, and a joke response.

[DoubleD]

My half-brother started going bald in high school and was basically full-on bald by his early 20's.

Just sayin'

[HardcoreLegend]

If you do, you certainly haven't posted it. You have one possible link between a trainer who was involved in steroids who one other guy says might have provided to several major leaguers (without Ortiz's name coming up), a major logical fallacy in point #2, and a joke response.

Enjoy the sand, careful getting it in your ears.

[RaptorQuiz]

My half-brother started going bald in high school and was basically full-on bald by his early 20's.

Just sayin'

My roommate in college was mostly bald by 27 - and I'm just 27 now and have an unfortunate amount of gray hair...

...I guess my mother lied on my birth certificate! Lying devil-woman!!!

[SwinginSoriano]

Not to go off topic, but there are way too many balding/bald baseball players. Oswalt isn't even 30 this year.

Makes you think, yet Canseco has an unbelievable head of hair. Go figure.

[Pirate]

What an ignorant load of BS. Try to comprehend, just for a moment, that for some people, math and baseball IS fun. You don't have to like it, just respect it and realize that to some people it is a form of enjoyment, it is an aspect of "humanity" in the game. If you don't like stats then ignore them. But realize that they are an aspect of baseball just like anything else. Why can't you at least respect it instead of spewing false, ignorant insults and propaganda? Why the hell is that so hard to just respect it?

I think it's cute how you get all upset when someone messes with your abacus.

[UncleMo]

I think beane is a genius. I'm not really a stat guy.

He is a financial guy who looks for undervalued pieces in the game and gets those pieces for his team. You can love baseball, and you can love everything surrounding the game that you choose to close your eyes to. If you wish.

Btw. We are all nerds. Except for Mo. He's a dork.