Kccitystar Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I'm just curious and wanted to know, how many of you believe in conspiracy theories and stuff like the government is hiding things from us, etc etc? I was just watching this documentary talking about many 9/11 conspiracy theories and there's alot of information around and some points concerning what happened in the years and months prior to 9/11... If anything, the name of the documentary was Loose Change. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video) And here is the video on Google if you're curious... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...+change&pl=true -KC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespungo Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Yep, you can count me in. I've been into this for over a year now, and with all the stuff I've seen in that 'Loose Change' DVD and countless other sources, I'm convinced that what we were told happend on 9/11 is not the whole story. I encourage everyone to watch the movie before you criticize this thread. The only way any of us know anything about the attacks on 9/11 is solely from the government and news media, and it would be foolish to accept everything they say as 100% fact. Give this documentary a chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleEnglishD Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I've seen that movie, but IMO the 9/11 conspiracies are a little over the top. But I do believe our government is hiding things from us and covering things up. The big "conspiracy" that I believe in is the JFK assassination. The magic bullet theory, I mean come on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebjr Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I haven't seen the DVD, but I am firmly convinced that the govt. is always covering things up. Especially this administration. It's impossible for the average person to know what we were doing behind closed doors that led up to 9/11. But you are right. We don't know the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Unit Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 i know the government hides things, but i dont believe in the 9/11 thing being an inside job. but when the private archives with all this hidden information opens up in 20 something years, we'll know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespungo Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 i know the government hides things, but i dont believe in the 9/11 thing being an inside job. Why do you think that? Because on the news they said the 9/11 attacks were done by Islamic terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friedman Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Sure, there are definately things that the government is hiding from us. There's no doubt about that. But to me, saying that the 9/11 was an inside job, and that the government planned it is going too far. Of course there's no proof that it definately wasn't an inside job, but I highly doubt that the government would plan something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 Sure, there are definately things that the government is hiding from us. There's no doubt about that. But to me, saying that the 9/11 was an inside job, and that the government planned it is going too far. Of course there's no proof that it definately wasn't an inside job, but I highly doubt that the government would plan something like that. Check the video, well at most the prelude, and read up on Operation Northwoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleEnglishD Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Well if you guys really want to get technical, you could say that it is an inside job since the CIA supported Osama Bin Laden and other extremists when the USSR was fighting in Afganistan. We basically trained alot of the people back then that we are trying to fight today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebjr Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I don't think our government planned it, but only God knows what we were doing behind closed doors to these countries. It's obvious that our leaders will do anything to force their power onto people. I personally believe that we will never know what led up to the attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespungo Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Well if you guys really want to get technical, you could say that it is an inside job since the CIA supported Osama Bin Laden... And if you want to get even more technical you could say the government's list of terrorists who hijacked the planes that day was bogus, because many are still alive today and living in the middle east. I think we need to move away from the idea that terrible Islamic people committed the attacks. Buying into that story just follows the governments plan to drum up support for an invasion into Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebjr Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I think we need to move away from the idea that terrible Islamic people committed the attacks. Buying into that story just follows the governments plan to drum up support for an invasion into Iraq. Amen. This is why I love this site. It's not only about baseball, but there is intelligent conversation about just about any subject that is brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 A few things I'd like to point out... -The most notable reference concerns the option market where a high volume of put options were purchased in the days before 9/11 on both American and United Airlines. The number of put options purchased was more than six times higher than normal. -According to CNN, "Between August 10 and September 10, the NYSE says short sales of UAL Corp. increased 40 percent, American parent AMR Corp increased 20 percent, and aircraft manufacturer Boeing Corp. increased 37 percent. CNN stated: "Short-sellers with advance knowledge of the attack could have made millions." -It is often pointed out that no steel building before or since the 9-11 attack has collapsed as the result of fire. This historical reference is cited because fire has never induced a total collapse as was seen on September 11th. The WTC towers burned for less than 102 min (WTC 1) and 56 minutes (WTC 2), during which both towers were stable after the impacts. -Why doesn't the government release cockpit voice recorder transcripts to public? Is it because they cut off the final 3 minutes of the CVR recording? Cleveland Air Traffic Control reported that Flight 93 went out of radar contact at 10:06 am, and the FAA radar records a time of 10:06am also. -President Bush says that he saw the first plane hit the WTC on television and thought it was pilot error. There is no footage of the first plane hitting the towers, other than amateur footage used for a firefighter documentary. Once again, Operation Northwoods shares parallels with this whole scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbjr Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Of course the Government lies to us, (not misleads, not hides things, but outright lies to us!). While 9/11 may not have been planed or carried out by the Bush government, it certainly was used as an pretext to send troops into the mid-east to secure oil rights for Bush and Cheney's friends. By the way, Bush and Cheney still own large amounts of shares of the companies over there profiting off of our troops holding land over in Iraq. And it looks like Bush is gearing up to send troops into Iran. Do you really think anyone would give a [naughty word] about Iran if it wasn't sitting on about 15% of the world's oil supply? Boy wouldn't the corperations that sponser Bush and Cheney love to get in on that deal, (and all the money that goes with it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kccitystar Posted April 24, 2006 Author Share Posted April 24, 2006 I'll post up a history lesson here, and just post what needs to be read... Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro as part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative. The plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state sponsored terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the highest ranking member of the U.S. military, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer. The proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba," a collection of draft memoranda written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group. The document was presented by the JCS to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes. The suggestions included: -Starting rumors about Cuba by using clandestine radios. -Staging mock attacks, sabotages and riots at Guantanamo Bay and blaming it on Cuban forces. -Firebombing and sinking an American ship at the Guantanamo Bay American military base—reminiscent of the USS Maine incident at Havana in 1898, which started the Spanish-American War—or destroy American aircraft and blame it on Cuban forces. (The document's first suggestion regarding the sinking of a U.S. ship is to blow up a manned ship and hence would result in U.S. Navy members being killed, with a secondary suggestion of possibly using unmanned drones and fake funerals instead.) -"Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type [sic] planes would be useful as complementary actions." -Destroying an unmanned drone masquerading as a commercial aircraft supposedly full of "college students off on a holiday". This proposal was the one supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. -Staging a "terror campaign", including the "real or simulated" sinking of Cuban refugees "We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute [sic] to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized." Burning crops by dropping incendiary devices in Haiti, Dominican Republic or elsewhere. Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war. Since its declassification, the document has often been cited as evidence of historical precedent for a number of claimed contemporary conspiracies relating to government manipulation of public sentiment surrounding foreign policy through violent acts, including the suggestion that the U.S. government was responsible for the September 11, 2001 attacks. So now you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee4Life Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I haven't seen the DVD, but I am firmly convinced that the govt. is always covering things up. Especially this administration. It's impossible for the average person to know what we were doing behind closed doors that led up to 9/11. But you are right. We don't know the whole story. tebjr, there is a saying that is very appropriate for this thread. It goes like this: "There is always a nugget of truth in all talk." Think about that for a second. So what I am trying to say is that the people who just dismiss conspiracy theories as nonsense don't care to listen to what they have to say. I am not a political person so I don't buy everything that Washington is trying to sell us. And I am like you in believing that the government is always trying to cover things up. I don't know why they do, but they do. The entire story of 9-11 will never be known. Because they don't want us to know. Washington loves to dismiss conspiracy theorys as just that. Theorys that they say are untrue so they want everyone to believe that they are. Here's something related to this in a way. Remember the Oliver Stone movie JFK ? Well, that movie was taken apart by a lot of people because it didn't show the government in a good light. Stone admitted himself that some of the movie was "speculation" but also there was a lot of fact in that movie. So much facts that the government can not give a decent answer as to why it is so. Like for instance the files from JFK are still sealed until something like the year 2029. WHY? And what was the true story of Lee Harvey Oswald? Was he really in the CIA at one point? Why did they say he acted alone? And a magic bullet? People in the 1960's bought this hook, line and sinker and it still holds to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleEnglishD Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 This is a little off-topic but has anyone seen the movie "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"? It is about the attempted coup in 2002 in Venezuela that was supported by the CIA. Here's a link to the site http://www.chavezthefilm.com/index_ex.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hory Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Yes, the Bush administation were warned about possible terrorist attacks and ignored information that could have prevented the tragedy. But with all due respect,the idea that the they planned the attacks is just nuts This is the the Bush administration we're talking about here, the most incompetent White House since the Civil War, They couldn't carry out such an outrageous plan and not mess it up, it's just not their style. Of course, there's stuff the Government doesn't want to reveal, Flight 93 was obviously shot down, it had to be. But Loose Change's theory the plane was landed at an airport is totally insane. As for JFK I like the new theory of a German film-maker that the Fidel Castro's sercet service paid Oswald 6 1/2 thousand for the assasination at the Cuban embassy in Mexico City 2 months beforehand. I guess like what has happened with JFK we will never know for certain what happened on 9/11 even 50 years from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELDoro Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 If you believe in the Charlie Sheen theory, I think your nuts. As for the video: I'm not saying the information on the movie is not accurate but I think its evident with the Michael Moore films that you shouldnt believe everything you watch in a so called "documentary". Even as a Democrat, Michael Moore angers me with his lies and "camera" tricks he pulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebjr Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 This is the the Bush administration we're talking about here, the most incompetent White House since the Civil War, They couldn't carry out such an outrageous plan and not mess it up, it's just not their style. Couldn't agree more. What makes it worse is that they believe they've got the wool pulled over everyone's eyes. Let me rephrase that. They know what they're doing, and I don't think they care that we know. Their pockets are being lined with all this oil money. So they could care less what condition they leave the country in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespungo Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Yes, the Bush administation were warned about possible terrorist attacks and ignored information that could have prevented the tragedy. But with all due respect,the idea that the they planned the attacks is just nuts Do you not believe because you don't want to, or because you really think they didn't plan the attacks? Most people don't embrace these theories because they would like to believe they live in a world where the government protects us and is always doing whats best for us. People don't want to belive our greedy government is capable of this, so they close their ears and minds to all talk of conspiracy. Well it's time to believe this. Our government has been doing shady stuff like this since it was founded. We need to begin to question their actions... Of course, there's stuff the Government doesn't want to reveal, Flight 93 was obviously shot down, it had to be. But Loose Change's theory the plane was landed at an airport is totally insane. How was it obviously shot down? If it was obviously shot down, where is the obvious wreckage? If it was obviously shot down then there would obviously be wreckage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegz Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I belive in the 9-11 theory, those movies are REALLY revealing. And being a 24 addict, nothing seems that farfetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean O Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Why do you think that? Because on the news they said the 9/11 attacks were done by Islamic terrorists? You're right; when all evidence points to an obvious conclusion, I like to come up with the most ludicrous explanation possible. Screw you, Occam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespungo Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 You're right; when all evidence points to an obvious conclusion, I like to come up with the most ludicrous explanation possible. Screw you, Occam. What evidence? We all watched on television as planes crashed into buildings and we were told it was Islamic terrorists. That's the only evidence we're allowed to see, as the government has hidden all the other "evidence." Well there must be evidence somewhere. How about the planes? Nope, they all mysteriously incinerated and disppeared. What about the buildings? Nope, they collapsed in a scene much akin to a Las Vegas casino implosion. Well then what about documents, there must be documents! Nope, they all were destroyed when the other World Trade Center building collapsed... that was a few blocks away from the twin towers. But who needs physical evidence when we can just believe our government? They'll tell us the truth! Always be careful when shaving with Occam's Razor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I am in complete agreement with all of you that say the govt. let it happen or accually carried out the attacks. If you haven't all ready, please watch "Loose Change", it's about an hour long (1:00:55 I believe). So if you have some free time, I do recommend viewing it. Loose Change homepage. Also check out: 9/11Hoax.com http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm What REALLY happened Even more proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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