TOTAL CLASSICS 3.0 COMPLETED!

[fuzzone]

whatever you say hot sauce. you act like the guy stole every chance he had. a 100 is really pushing it.

check your pms, i want to know a few things.

[DRaysGoRocco]

yeah if Ichiro Suzuki gets a 98 with 31 SB and 15 CS people with more steals and a better success rate need to be higher

Importing from a database goes by statistics like Stolen Bases and triples (maybe based on a few other things).

Ichiro has the speed to steal more than 30, but just doens't run as much. That doesn't necessarily mean that a player who stole 60+ bases in the 80's is faster, it's a different game/situation.

[fuzzone]

Too many players were given a given a 100 in speed. Darryl Strawberry '86, Babe Ruth '18, Jeter '98 for example. Straw was fast in '86, but not 100. Ruth shouldn't be a 90, even as a 23 year old in 1918. Jeter has good speed, but nowhere near a 100.

you noticed those players but didnt notice the 7 players on the 90 reds and the 4 players on the 77 reds teams? loool..REAL ALL STARS BABY!!

[fuzzone]

when you guys make your met files, let me know if u need help assigning unique player ids if your team package is for Total Classics 2.0 (i didnt say photo_ids, people confuse that)

[Guest Mindwarped]

you noticed those players but didnt notice the 7 players on the 90 reds and the 4 players on the 77 reds teams? loool..REAL ALL STARS BABY!!

only on 5 the 1990 team

1 pitcher

3 starters should be 100, 95,90

1 backup guy just a pinch runner

1977 team

4 players

3 starters (2 should be 100 1 needs changed)

1 backup guy who was just on the team to pinch run

59 player on your roster has a 100 for speed

188 over 85

244 under 15

[Guest Mindwarped]

when you guys make your met files, let me know if u need help assigning unique player ids if your team package is for Total Classics 2.0 (i didnt say photo_ids, people confuse that)

SO

Once, once, and will you let it drop

NO

[yankees1979]

there are a lot of tweaks that do need to be made. like for players running speed and pitchers on the movement of certain pitches and theie real pitches. some pitchers throw a curve ball that doesn't move at all.

i made the 1941 yankees and a few others. i don't remember all of them. if anyone notices problems like that feel free to tweak them and release that team as an update. it's hard to go into every player and look at every little thing. thats why when someone notices something it helps make us make it as realistic as possible. i've been real busy at work lately to even play the game. i played a game a few days ago with fuzz and thats it. i say if you find a problem and know how to fix it, go for it. at least with the stuff i made. i don't care. i just want it to be as kick a$$ as possible.

[fuzzone]

DONT JUSTIFY IT! THIS ISNT A DEBATE! IT ISNT!!

[Guest Mindwarped]

DONT JUSTIFY IT! THIS ISNT A DEBATE! IT ISNT!!

You are right it is not a debate

I'm right and you are wrong

[fuzzone]

The players for the most part should be good, and even overall good speed. this total classics roster is comprised of the best teams. so im not saying the players shouldnt be fast.

it's just 6 starting players shouldn't be 100 speed, especially on the same team.

maybe theres other teams on the roster that have 6 players who are 100 speed, not so sure about that.

and dont beat around the bush telling me that theres

59 player on your roster has a 100 for speed

188 over 85

244 under 15

-59 with a 100 for speed? does that include your two red's packs?loooOOL

-188 over 85? that's not bad if we're talking about 42 of the best teams in history.

-244 under 15? that includes starting pitchers,relief pitchers,and catchers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but mindwarped, to end this dispute, if your telling me that

mariano duncan

billy hatcher

danny jackson

barry larkin

herm winningham

are bullets down the line, then i guess they're bullets down the line. I guess all of them were alfonso soriano.

so to clarify, im right and your just plain crazy hot sauce.

[fuzzone]

yankees1979,dRAYS,

i'll do a bit adjusting on the roster set, tweaks and such. and when it comes to mindwarp's team packs, i wont tweak or adjust anything unless me and him can decide on it.

DraysGoRocco, any other suggestions? If you know of any pitchers who should throw a certain pitch or do not throw a particular pitch, let me know.

========================================

oh by the way, if anyone would like the models.big/uniform.big, im willing to upload them via ftp,direct file transfer on msn messenger,yahoo messenger, or aol/aim

However, if you would like me to mail you the updated models.big/uniforms.big which includes all uniforms installed in MLB and AAA/AA slots having their respective oldtime uniforms, donate anything you'd like to fuzzyfluid@aol.com and give me a mailing address to send out the cd.

[Guest Mindwarped]

The players for the most part should be good, and even overall good speed. this total classics roster is comprised of the best teams. so im not saying the players shouldnt be fast.

it's just 6 starting players shouldn't be 100 speed, especially on the same team.

maybe theres other teams on the roster that have 6 players who are 100 speed, not so sure about that.

and dont beat around the bush telling me that theres

-59 with a 100 for speed? does that include your two red's packs?loooOOL

-188 over 85? that's not bad if we're talking about 42 of the best teams in history.

-244 under 15? that includes starting pitchers,relief pitchers,and catchers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

but mindwarped, to end this dispute, if your telling me that

mariano duncan

billy hatcher

danny jackson

barry larkin

herm winningham

are bullets down the line, then i guess they're bullets down the line. I guess all of them were alfonso soriano.

so to clarify, im right and your just plain crazy hot sauce.

Larkin YES

Duncan & winningham were speed demands (95)

Jackson is a fluke made by MVPedit

Hatcher should be about a 90

[Guest Mindwarped]

.........

[fuzzone]

MW@H

[fuzzone]

oh, i just read it. I meant ill upload the files for free no problem, but if anyone wants me to mail it to them,like postal mail.

[Guest Mindwarped]

yankees1979,dRAYS,

i'll do a bit adjusting on the roster set, tweaks and such. and when it comes to mindwarp's team packs, i wont tweak or adjust anything unless me and him can decide on it.

DraysGoRocco, any other suggestions? If you know of any pitchers who should throw a certain pitch or do not throw a particular pitch, let me know.

========================================

oh by the way, if anyone would like the models.big/uniform.big, im willing to upload them via ftp,direct file transfer on msn messenger,yahoo messenger, or aol/aim

if you would like me to email you the updated models.big/uniforms.big which includes all uniforms installed in MLB and AAA/AA slots having their respective oldtime uniforms, donate anything you'd like to fuzzyfluid@aol.com and give me a mailing address to send out the cd.

Larkin, Morgan, Griffey Sr should remain 100

Jackson should be 65

the 1st baseman in 77 I have no clue

Hatcher 85-90

Winningham & duncan 90+

upload the models.big/uniforms.big to my ftp(if you still have the info if not it will have to wait untill I get home)

[Guest Mindwarped]

are bullets down the line, then i guess they're bullets down the line. I guess all of them were alfonso soriano.

so to clarify, im right and your just plain crazy hot sauce.

that is how they won games, not alot of power & not great pitching (2 good starters 3 good bullpen guys)

.265 team Avg

no one over 100 RBI

no starter over 15 wins

125 total team HR

166 SB

this is a team that went wire to wire and sweep the WS

[fuzzone]

lol warp bro, all these stats go away from the fact that 100 speed isn't justifable no matter how fast they could run. you don't give a 100 out that easliy, especially to 6 players on the same team. that's all im saying

if i went by your way of thinking:

then 61 yanks won games by jacking shots out the park, i guess maris and mantle's power and contact should be a 100?

57 dodgers koufax pitched a whole lot of complete games and his stamina isn't a 100? Ryan in 73 angels doesnt have a 100 stamina?

Mickey Rivers isn't running at a 100. MICKEY FRIGGIN RIVERS MAN!!

how about the 74 A's? catfish,holtzman, and blue won a whole lot of games on pitching deep. wheres that stamina, huh?!!

OZZIE SMITH MAN, famous for his speed and backflip, I DONT SEE A JACKED UP 100.

but if your gonna sit there on that cinncinati futon and tell me that those 6/7 players deserve a 100, then i dont know what to tell you anymore man.

you can show me rbi stats, hitting percentage,steal percentage, and all that, it still doesnt justify a full 100 for 6/7 players.

but forget it.

[Guest Mindwarped]

lol warp bro, all these stats go away from the fact that 100 speed isn't justifable no matter how fast they could run. you don't give a 100 out that easliy, especially to 6 players on the same team. that's all im saying

if i went by your way of thinking:

then 61 yanks won games by jacking shots out the park, i guess maris and mantle's power and contact should be a 100?

57 dodgers koufax pitched a whole lot of complete games and his stamina isn't a 100? Ryan in 73 angels doesnt have a 100 stamina?

Mickey Rivers isn't running at a 100. MICKEY FRIGGIN RIVERS MAN!!

how about the 74 A's? catfish,holtzman, and blue won a whole lot of games on pitching deep. wheres that stamina, huh?!!

OZZIE SMITH MAN, famous for his speed and backflip, I DONT SEE A JACKED UP 100.

but if your gonna sit there on that cinncinati futon and tell me that those 6/7 players deserve a 100, then i dont know what to tell you anymore man.

you can show me rbi stats, hitting percentage,steal percentage, and all that, it still doesnt justify a full 100 for 6/7 players.

but forget it.

5 players not 6, and I said Jackson was a MVPedit fuckup

Larkin stays at 100

Duncan 93

Winningham 94

Hatcher 85

Plus speed is not the only stat you need to look at, steal agg need to be looked at also

No one was laster then winningham from 1st to 3rd but was not all the great at stealing a base

btw in 57 koufax averaged 3 innings per outing and had 2 complete games

how is that "57 dodgers koufax pitched a whole lot of complete games" he had 104.3 innings that year

Ryan should have 100 for 73 season 326.0 innings and 26 complete games

[stecropper]

Great discussion going on here. I've enjoyed reading the differences of opinion. I think each has merit in their own way.

As far as SPEED ratings assigned by MVPEdit from extracting a players statistics from the Lahman Data Base I can state with a fair degree of certainty on how that particular rating (and all others, as well, for that matter) was calculated.

First it should be taken into consideration that the Lahman Data Base doesn't contain every aspect of statistics for a player/pitcher for a given year so the MVPEdit ratings had to be calculated with the information/statistics available.

For a players SPEED it was a combination of a players Success Ratio with Steals (nothing to do with number of Steals but rather his Success Ratio); his TRIPLES hit Ratio to his number of At Bats; as well as a Ratio applied for his position in the field in such a Catcher/1st Baseman/3rd Baseman would have a sligthly lower weight factor than would a Short Stop or Center Fielder would.

A player Steal Ratio to At Bats (relative # of steals) was a factor used in his STEAL AGGRESSIVENESS rating but not his SPEED rating.

For Pitchers every Pitcher was given 1st a Fastball and 2nd a Curve. That just kind of made partical sense as a general rule. The 3rd and 4th pitches were randomly generated. A Pitchers Velocity rating is a factor of his winning percentage; his Ks Ratio to Batters Faced (heaviest weighing factor); his # of innings Pitched Ratio or Appearances if a Reliever and his E.R.A. For a pitchers Control and Movement it was all of the above Ratios with different weighing factors applied than were applied for the Velocity Rating.

All in All I feel MVPEdit is a fair representation overall. Obviously there are shortcomings to some degree and will always be when using a given set of available statistics. Also, there is always the dilemma such as assigning a players Throwing Strength and Throwing Accuracy since those would typically (as is the case with MVPEdit as well) be a factor of his Assists and POs varying depending on position played. Because although Players like Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson & Johnny Bench had super guns for an arm very seldom would anyone test them because of their reputation and thus they would not have a favorable Ratio for assists/put outs and their ratings would not really reflect their true attributes for throwing.

Thanks for this very active & interesting discussion.

Don

New Orleans

[DRaysGoRocco]

Great discussion going on here. I've enjoyed reading the differences of opinion. I think each has merit in their own way.

As far as SPEED ratings assigned by MVPEdit from extracting a players statistics from the Lahman Data Base I can state with a fair degree of certainty on how that particular rating (and all others, as well, for that matter) was calculated.

First it should be taken into consideration that the Lahman Data Base doesn't contain every aspect of statistics for a player/pitcher for a given year so the MVPEdit ratings had to be calculated with the information/statistics available.

For a players SPEED it was a combination of a players Success Ratio with Steals (nothing to do with number of Steals but rather his Success Ratio); his TRIPLES hit Ratio to his number of At Bats; as well as a Ratio applied for his position in the field in such a Catcher/1st Baseman/3rd Baseman would have a sligthly lower weight factor than would a Short Stop or Center Fielder would.

A player Steal Ratio to At Bats (relative # of steals) was a factor used in his STEAL AGGRESSIVENESS rating but not his SPEED rating.

For Pitchers every Pitcher was given 1st a Fastball and 2nd a Curve. That just kind of made partical sense as a general rule. The 3rd and 4th pitches were randomly generated. A Pitchers Velocity rating is a factor of his winning percentage; his Ks Ratio to Batters Faced (heaviest weighing factor); his # of innings Pitched Ratio or Appearances if a Reliever and his E.R.A. For a pitchers Control and Movement it was all of the above Ratios with different weighing factors applied than were applied for the Velocity Rating.

All in All I feel MVPEdit is a fair representation overall. Obviously there are shortcomings to some degree and will always be when using a given set of available statistics. Also, there is always the dilemma such as assigning a players Throwing Strength and Throwing Accuracy since those would typically (as is the case with MVPEdit as well) be a factor of his Assists and POs varying depending on position played. Because although Players like Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson & Johnny Bench had super guns for an arm very seldom would anyone test them because of their reputation and thus they would not have a favorable Ratio for assists/put outs and their ratings would not really reflect their true attributes for throwing.

Thanks for this very active & interesting discussion.

Don

New Orleans

Excellent post. I agree with everything.

100 speed is extremely fast. Especially in this game when any ball hit to the gap could be a triple. We need to remember that a 90-95 speed rating is still extremely fast. GeForce has an amazing roster set and his ratings were pretty fair in giving NO ONE a 100 in speed. If you threw Ichiro, Juan Pierre, and Carl Crawford in the 60's or 70's, they'd still be the fastest 5% in baseball.

[Guest Mindwarped]

Great discussion going on here. I've enjoyed reading the differences of opinion. I think each has merit in their own way.

As far as SPEED ratings assigned by MVPEdit from extracting a players statistics from the Lahman Data Base I can state with a fair degree of certainty on how that particular rating (and all others, as well, for that matter) was calculated.

First it should be taken into consideration that the Lahman Data Base doesn't contain every aspect of statistics for a player/pitcher for a given year so the MVPEdit ratings had to be calculated with the information/statistics available.

For a players SPEED it was a combination of a players Success Ratio with Steals (nothing to do with number of Steals but rather his Success Ratio); his TRIPLES hit Ratio to his number of At Bats; as well as a Ratio applied for his position in the field in such a Catcher/1st Baseman/3rd Baseman would have a sligthly lower weight factor than would a Short Stop or Center Fielder would.

A player Steal Ratio to At Bats (relative # of steals) was a factor used in his STEAL AGGRESSIVENESS rating but not his SPEED rating.

For Pitchers every Pitcher was given 1st a Fastball and 2nd a Curve. That just kind of made partical sense as a general rule. The 3rd and 4th pitches were randomly generated. A Pitchers Velocity rating is a factor of his winning percentage; his Ks Ratio to Batters Faced (heaviest weighing factor); his # of innings Pitched Ratio or Appearances if a Reliever and his E.R.A. For a pitchers Control and Movement it was all of the above Ratios with different weighing factors applied than were applied for the Velocity Rating.

All in All I feel MVPEdit is a fair representation overall. Obviously there are shortcomings to some degree and will always be when using a given set of available statistics. Also, there is always the dilemma such as assigning a players Throwing Strength and Throwing Accuracy since those would typically (as is the case with MVPEdit as well) be a factor of his Assists and POs varying depending on position played. Because although Players like Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson & Johnny Bench had super guns for an arm very seldom would anyone test them because of their reputation and thus they would not have a favorable Ratio for assists/put outs and their ratings would not really reflect their true attributes for throwing.

Thanks for this very active & interesting discussion.

Don

New Orleans

Would you be willing to share the formulas used to create the ratings? It would make creating individual players alot easier

[fuzzone]

Don, you're a real class act in my book

Wonderful post.

[stecropper]

Mindwarped,

I believe releashing the formulas used for MVPEdit's conversion into MVP 2004 ratings from the Lahman Data Base has to be granted by Robert Glass since he is the author and owner of MVPEdit.

I did have the pleasure of working with Robert on this project, thus I am knowledgeable on these formulas, but anything and everything I contributed remained solely owned by Robert.

Take Care,

Don

New Orleans

[deadballfan]

Hi all,

This is my first post of hopefully many more to come.

First, I'd like to say I've enjoyed the lively discussion over Lehman and speed and tweaks etc. I've tried to incorporate some of the opinions in my 1905 Giants roster met which has been uploaded and should be available soon.

None of the players have speeds of 100, but the OFs range from 88-96 as speed is needed to patrol the absolutely huge expanse that is the Polo Grounds.

I also tweaked the numbers of some players who had little playing time, if any. Moonlight Graham had no stats according to Lehman. Played one inning, never batted nor had a fielding chance. McGraw played a little but had to tweak him upwards a bit considering he was a HOF caliber 3B, albeit in the latter part of his career and the manager.

It has the met file and fsh portaits, no logos or uniforms yet. The portraits aren't anything elaborate, just bmps attached to an fsh in FSHed and renumbered using TextPad so I could use EAGraph to dump them into potrait.big. Some are photos and some are potraits on old Baseball cards. I was just glad I found something for 21 of 22 players.

Let me know if you decide to dl and try it. It's my first mod and I want to learn all I can for future teams. I hope to make the 05 A's, 07-09 Tigers (can't remember the best team of the 3 offhand), and maybe a couple more early champs (09 Pirates, 06 Sox, or 06-08 Cubs)

deadballfan

Jim