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MarkB

Welcome to Baseball 101!

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This forum can be used for various reasons. If you need help understanding any of the rules of baseball in general, how certain statistics are calculated or if you want to know how do to certain things, post it here.

Need to know the best grip for a circle-change? Post here.

Need to know which finger you should put pressure on when throwing a cutter? Post here.

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How so? The top 5 threads in the forum have been posted in only 1 week ago.

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My post wasn't directed at you, TribeFan4Eva. :)

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Okay here goes:

I want to know how a knuckler is thrown so I can teach it to my nephew.

I also want to know at what age someone is aloud to start throwing a slider to compliment the knuckler. Johnny Sain told Jim Bouton to compliment his knuckler with a slider. So that is why.

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I'll tell you there are numerous grips for the knuckleball. Here are a couple links to it, because there is no one right answer for this.

As for the slider grip question, I started throwing it when I was 7, with no problems, but I have heard that it causes problems with other people, I guess for me I had no problems because it always worked well, so I must've been throwing it properly. I come from a 3/4 to sidearm angle, so that might be the reason, I didn't have to put an exorbitant amount of energy into it to get it to break far.

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A very good page on this is: http://www.oddball-mall.com/knuckleball/k101.htm

A few tips here:

http://www.ehow.com/tips_3187.html

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Okay here goes:

I want to know how a knuckler is thrown so I can teach it to my nephew.

I also want to know at what age someone is aloud to start throwing a slider to compliment the knuckler. Johnny Sain told Jim Bouton to compliment his knuckler with a slider. So that is why.

I was taught that you shouldn't throw a slider until your about 12-13, same as a curve ball. Maybe I was taught wrong though. That was a tough pitch for me to learn, but once I figured it out, it was real nasty!

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Can I get verification on the age for a slider? Is it early teen 12-13 yrs. old, or is it 18?

Ronmexico, thanks.

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Well, since the slider is kinda thrown like a fastball, I'd say that its ok for someone as yound as 10 to toy around with it. But I may be wrong.

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i dont think kids should start throwing off speed until 15... not only for the sake of their arms... but to make them a better pitcher, having them learn an offspeed pitch at that age isn't going to help their development because kids at that age have no clue how to hit the offspeed. I'm 16 and throw against 19 year olds and only starting throwing a real curveball this season.

If you are going to teach a kid an offspeed teach them a changeup or a pitch that is gripped different but thrown in the exact same motion as a fastball ( i threw a cutter like this .... )

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i dont think kids should start throwing off speed until 15... not only for the sake of their arms... but to make them a better pitcher, having them learn an offspeed pitch at that age isn't going to help their development because kids at that age have no clue how to hit the offspeed. I'm 16 and throw against 19 year olds and only starting throwing a real curveball this season.

If you are going to teach a kid an offspeed teach them a changeup or a pitch that is gripped different but thrown in the exact same motion as a fastball ( i threw a cutter like this .... )

I don't throw the changeup. I prefer the palmball. I mastered it and now i can use it as strike 2 or even strike 3.

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i mostly agree with hotcorner, i never threw a real curve until i was 14, but a changeup for a young player can be beneficial and it doesnt hurt ur arm.

anyways, for the op, i used to throw a circle change, but now ive changed my grip and i get a lot more movement. i basically grip with my pinky and thumb on opposite sides of the ball (thats where the pressure is) and rest the rest of my fingers on the ball. anyways, i have down and in movement to a righty and much better control. in fact, a good changeup can really help a fastball, especially when the breaking stuff is not working that particular day. also a cutter is not healthy for a young arm.

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You shouldn't throw any kinda real curve slider type breaking pitches until you are at least in high school and probably sophomore year of high school. Optimally you would wait until 18 or 19 to avoid injury. Basically until you about 20-23 your still growing and strengthening you muscles and tendons so the later the better for your arm but obviously if you start at 23 it wont do you any good so up to you but id say 12-13 is early id wait til the 14-16 range

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just because you haven't felt anything wrong doesn't mean something isn't already wrong. but even so, just because you have nothing wrong now, doesn't mean it won't happen. throwing a baseball for years at a time just isn't good for the shoulder girdle, let alone the wrist, neck, elbow, back...but it's a well known fact that trying to throw a curveball at a young age only increases your chances of injury. doesn't mean it will happen, but it definitely doesn't mean it won't happen. there's plenty of degenerative changes in your joints that will happen later in life through repetitive stress.

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just because you haven't felt anything wrong doesn't mean something isn't already wrong. but even so, just because you have nothing wrong now, doesn't mean it won't happen. throwing a baseball for years at a time just isn't good for the shoulder girdle, let alone the wrist, neck, elbow, back...but it's a well known fact that trying to throw a curveball at a young age only increases your chances of injury. doesn't mean it will happen, but it definitely doesn't mean it won't happen. there's plenty of degenerative changes in your joints that will happen later in life through repetitive stress.

Actually i don't pitch that much. Last season i pitched 11.1 innings in 20 games. Maybe that's why i didn't have problems.

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my friend is 16 and has already done serious damage to his elbow, was in a cast for a year and cant pitch a curveball for another year. I wouldnt advise throwing a curve until your 17-18

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or even more likely, the damage you've done isn't to the extent that you're feeling anything. pain isn't the best indicator for injury. it just so happens to be the one indicator that people will finally wake up and realize something is wrong.

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ive been throwing one since i was 14, and no arm problems for me ever. it just depends on how you throw it. if you dont throw it right, your arm will get screwed up.

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ive been throwing one since i was 14, and no arm problems for me ever. it just depends on how you throw it. if you dont throw it right, your arm will get screwed up.

throwing anything (even a fastball) is hell for you body. Any breaking pitch puts stress on your tendons no matter how well you throw it. If you put too much stress on you tendons at a young age (aka 14) you up you chance of havin arm problems down the road. It increases the chance of having arthritis when you 50. It increases the chances of having a problem just from lifting weights. Bottom line NO matter how perfect your form is it messes up your arm. Its just a matter of how long that process takes. For some they may quit after high school or college and never have a problem. But no matter when you start throwing it it does dmg to your arm its just timing it so that you get the most use out of it with the least dmg to your arm.

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i agree with bigpapa, especially lifting weights. its hard for me to keep up with the football players i with my bench bc im a pitcher. anything involving my legs is fine, but it always seems my right arm (righty) when i bench is always lagging, causing me to lift less than i normally would. good post.

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there's really nothing to agree or disagree. it's a medical fact. don't believe me? spend a week in my office and you'll plenty of it. it's all well described in the literature also. those degenerative changes are something that are just going to occur at an older age, because the typical person doesn't know how to or won't take care of these injuries when they should.

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