State of MVPMods, January 2008

[Kccitystar]

Good evening my fellow members at MVPMods and the like...I am posting this because it is in fact the beginning of the new year and possibly the third year of MVP Baseball 2005 and this site's 4th year in existence.

I remember when we first started out in April of 2004, we were just a handful of guys who liked the same game, and we collectively wanted to edit this game and use our talents to make this game as good as possible. A majority of the talent that continues to post today and mod today originated from this site. A lot of the techniques developed for modding have been discovered here and have been shared here. This site has collaborated with tons of other gaming communities, has been featured in a lot of magazines and has received a lot of exposure since it's inception.

At the time, it was a strong community that shared resources and experience, but that's not to say that there weren't any road blocks along the way. There were many people at one point that made knock-off after knock-off of people's work, and some people's egos got too big to the point where it couldn't fit through a damn door, but it worked out for the best at the end of the day. We've had our share of unique members on this site, such as Moose, Timay, Fuzz, etc. but at the same time we all shared one thing and that was our love for MVP Baseball 2005/04/03 in some cases.

Over the past year things have been going very smoothly on this site, with new modders coming in, learning from the veteran modders and the site was in a way, beginning to enter its golden age again. However, this would never come to fruition as many modders felt that their talents could be taken elsewhere and seceded from this site, citing irreconcilable differences with its staff and moderating team.

Pirate had written up quite a decent post near the end of this year stating that things had gone "way too far" and in a sense was harming the PC baseball community far more than it has helped. To restate what Pirate had said about the MVP community would take forever, but there were a few key points that was said that probably struck a nerve with a lot of people.

Apparently people forgot why we modded. This community was built around people who shared the same interest in a video game. A video game that is now three years old with no intentions of returning. A baseball game that continues to be compared to annual baseball titles post-2005 thanks to our hard work. I never made a dime off of my work. I would have liked to have recieved money as a "thanks KC for everything", but I never forced it upon anyone to do so because I mod for fun. I mod for myself first and if I'm happy with how it turns out, I'll share it with people, to see if they like it, and let the chips fall where they may.

As it seems, almost everyone that is an active modder is bitter. Bitter towards the administrators of this site, bitter at the moderators, bitter at this site itself, hell, bitter at ME because I don't like to get involved in any site related issues, but unfortunately the situation has gotten out of hand to the point where I want to step in and speak my piece. This situation has gotten so out of hand that there seems to be a rivalry, or a site war between two sites, and for some strange reason, a lot of the hype and negative comments come from people who were previously banned from this site.

This "site war" has destroyed working relationships, friendships, and the purpose of this community. The integrity of this community has been destroyed. I am beginning to feel like I've wasted my time with this nonsense, because I mod for fun, I do all of this frontend work and such for fun, once that fun is lost, it's more of a chore than it is a hobby.

With that said, I'd like to see some changes. I am aware that it isn't my place to play armchair admin or armchair moderator, but here are a few suggestions.

-------------------------------------------------

- People say that this community has flourished by countless modders and their tireless dedication to making MVP Baseball as authentic as possible, right? Why not let a handful of trusted modders become staff members, or an administrator?

I suggest that MarkB, Y4L, and a lot of non-modders that are currently moderators should step down. Not because I want them to, but because I feel that there should be new blood actively running and moderating this site, and it would save them less stress and time closing topics and reasoning with people they don't like. They are noble people and respectable people, but IMO well established modders need to be Admins and Moderators. It's "by the community for the community", right? Almost 25% of the community helps mod an almost 4 year old title. That 25% can moderate and administrate.

People love to complain that moderators are power hungry etc, but their complaints will not hold any weight when it's someone who provides mods for them doing the banning and the locking of topics. People often see Trues' word as law of the land because he is an active modder and he's the one who got this site off the ground, although it's more of the latter than the former.

-I know that there are a ton of people with duplicate accounts, banned accounts, etc., and it's hard to continuously fly around like a vulture on this site and weed them out, so I'm proposing monthly manual validation. This site is big enough for that, to prevent duplicate accounts and keep the insanity to a minimum.

This can be useful in welcoming new members also, because until their account is validated, they wouldn't be able to post, thus leaving them to lurk to adjust to the forum members and the site culture.

- There needs to be a read-only forum with a list of bans, links to the post, and the reason for banning. Make sure that the offending posts are clearly marked with 'USER BANNED/PROBATED/WHATEVER FOR THIS POST' so people can be clear on what is unacceptable.

- Trolling...ah yes, trolling. How can you control it when it is bound to happen?

The best way to deal with trolling, ect, is to ignore it. If someone posts some stupid inflammatory comment and no one starts the argument then the crisis is averted. You don't need the ignore function to be able to ignore a person completely. It's called self-control, and everyone who complains about trolls and responds to them needs to learn to use it. I think it comes down to the members of MVPMods collectively fixing issues themselves, or a harsh increase in moderation, unfortunately.

- The best moderation is almost invisible and only appears when a real problem is developing.

There's more ideas I have in mind but these are about it. Modders can have input also...and no, this topic should not be locked.

Why? For starters, this is an issue that should not be swept under the rug because everybody who mods and or downloads mods knows, and it's for new years' sake, it's 2008 and I think public input should help this community grow. Let all of that anger out and just move forward.

[seanzarelli]

:hail:

[RaysFTW]

Well said. And KC you already know you're my hero. :)

[DJEagles]

Let me be the first to answer this post. I promise to be as unbiased as I can. I know I am not the "25%" that mods here, and realize my opinion may or may not matter, but here goes:

Yes, as an Admin, I have made some **** poor decisions on this site, and I have had to live with them, but may I submit that some of the egos of certain modders, have also contributed to the downfall in relations between us, and EAMods.

It's easy to blame us Admins, why the hell not, that's the easiest thing to do. But don't think for a second that we are the only ones that have caused a disturbance here, and to think having us all resign will make a difference, is naive.

Whatever problems you, any other person, etc...have with anyone on any other website, is not mine, or any other staffers fault. Egos have gotten in the way, and that sucks, but it is a fact of life.

I am glad you have ideas on how to fix the site, but calling us out the way you did really sucks KC, but you did what you had too.

Let's see what happens.

[D-Unit]

Probably one of the best posts I've ever read on this site.

[superciuc]

Al hail KC! Nice post, man.

[abc006]

The problem about making the modders moderators is that the reason the moderators became moderators was because of their maturity and ability to handle situations... if you just suddenly give it to the modders, it would probably hurt more than help, because as with any group of people, it has its share of capable, responsible members fit to be mods, and the immature, easily angered... idiots. You can't just blindly give power to a group of people because they contribute one aspect of the site. I can easily see more chaos erupting, not necessarily "site-war" related. (I still can't believe that even happened. It's so incredibly stupid and pointless, I can't believe people actually started "taking sides." That's a different issue, though.) If anything, modders should have more say in site development and issues, but not necessarily suddenly handed most moderating privileges. I think that's unnecessary and won't make the overall state of the site much better.

And before people start putting out "all hail KC!" posts, think about it all. I'm not saying don't agree with him, you're perfectly entitled, and I defenitely agree with him on plenty of points, but it seems like your just giving blind faith to KC.

[D-Unit]

I didn't see it as an attack either, I think it's more of a message to unite and work out the rough patches.

[Kccitystar]

Let me be the first to answer this post. I promise to be as unbiased as I can. I know I am not the "25%" that mods here, and realize my opinion may or may not matter, but here goes:

Yes, as an Admin, I have made some **** poor decisions on this site, and I have had to live with them, but may I submit that some of the egos of certain modders, have also contributed to the downfall in relations between us, and EAMods.

It's easy to blame us Admins, why the hell not, that's the easiest thing to do. But don't think for a second that we are the only ones that have caused a disturbance here, and to think having us all resign will make a difference, is naive.

Whatever problems you, any other person, etc...have with anyone on any other website, is not mine, or any other staffers fault. Egos have gotten in the way, and that sucks, but it is a fact of life.

I am glad you have ideas on how to fix the site, but calling us out the way you did really sucks KC, but you did what you had too.

Let's see what happens.

My post DJEagles, is not one of just blatantly calling out everyone that is of elevated member status on this site. That is not my intention, as I said, the people who are currently moderating are respectable people and people who a majority get along with. I know a lot of administrative decisions may go down for what's best for the site, but there are a lot that are headscratchers as well.

It's more of a wakeup call to everyone to get their sh*t together and settle their differences for the good of the community, because all of this BS is not doing anybody any good whatsoever.

[DJEagles]

Don't you think we have tried???

I understand everyone's frustrations, but let's be honest: EAMods was established as an alternative to MVPMods. They have a good core group of guys running it over there, and regardless of any ups and downs we have had, I can respect their work.

But, and here it is, as long as there are two sites running, then there is going to be competition, there is going to be modders choosing sides, and there is nothing that we can do about it.

Maybe its the modders that need to make peace amongst themselves?

Maybe it needs to start there? Just a thought.

[Kccitystar]

The problem about making the modders moderators is that the reason the moderators became moderators was because of their maturity and ability to handle situations... if you just suddenly give it to the modders, it would probably hurt more than help, because as with any group of people, it has its share of capable, responsible members fit to be mods, and the immature, easily angered... idiots. You can't just blindly give power to a group of people because they contribute one aspect of the site. I can easily see more chaos erupting, not necessarily "site-war" related. (I still can't believe that even happened. It's so incredibly stupid and pointless, I can't believe people actually started "taking sides." That's a different issue, though.) If anything, modders should have more say in site development and issues, but not necessarily suddenly handed most moderating privileges. I think that's unnecessary and won't make the overall state of the site much better.

And before people start putting out "all hail KC!" posts, think about it all. I'm not saying don't agree with him, you're perfectly entitled, and I defenitely agree with him on plenty of points, but it seems like your just giving blind faith to KC.

Maybe the way I worded it sounded kind of open-ended but I am not making it sound like, you know, a takeover, like OMG KNEEL BEFORE ZOD or something.

Think about this ABC for a second. Let's say if you were banned from this site for a particular reason, would the fact that a modder banned you, someone who contributes to the game YOU play, hold more weight than just a member with an administrator tag?

[superciuc]

Let me be the first to answer this post. I promise to be as unbiased as I can. I know I am not the "25%" that mods here, and realize my opinion may or may not matter, but here goes:

Yes, as an Admin, I have made some **** poor decisions on this site, and I have had to live with them, but may I submit that some of the egos of certain modders, have also contributed to the downfall in relations between us, and EAMods.

It's easy to blame us Admins, why the hell not, that's the easiest thing to do. But don't think for a second that we are the only ones that have caused a disturbance here, and to think having us all resign will make a difference, is naive.

Whatever problems you, any other person, etc...have with anyone on any other website, is not mine, or any other staffers fault. Egos have gotten in the way, and that sucks, but it is a fact of life.

I am glad you have ideas on how to fix the site, but calling us out the way you did really sucks KC, but you did what you had too.

Let's see what happens.

I don't think he's "calling you out". And i know that being an admin or a moderator isn't easy, trust me. And this whole "war" sucks. And you know why? Because we want to play the game, we just want to put our MVP disc in our computer and play a game with updated rosters, uniforms, staidums, etc. Especially for me, because the only baseball game i can play is MVP baseball 2005. And it sucks when somebody quits on modding. Look, i don't care about EAmods and MVPmods, i just want to play the game.

[dalboys]

and why do i (timay) always have to be mentioned in shoutboxes, blogs and threads everywhere? I was banned 3 years ago, leave the past in the past and stop bringing it up, getting really tired of it.

Great post, but nothing is going to change, and relieving MarkB and Yankee4Life of their moderating duties because they don't mod, that doesn't seem very fair, both these guys here have done a sufficient job of moderating over the years, even though I have butted heads will both guys, and can barely stand MarkB.

In my eyes the post was a waste of breath, although KC got some things off his chest. Is he a well respected modder in the community. Yes. Is he an administrator or moderator. No. Leave the decision making to those guys.

Anyways, good checking in again, and I expect this account to be banned withing the next 5 minutes.

Again, I dont want to see my name mentioned on this site ever again, Timay is banned, and should never be spoken of.

-Dalboys aka Timay

[Kccitystar]

Don't you think we have tried???

I understand everyone's frustrations, but let's be honest: EAMods was established as an alternative to MVPMods. They have a good core group of guys running it over there, and regardless of any ups and downs we have had, I can respect their work.

But, and here it is, as long as there are two sites running, then there is going to be competition, there is going to be modders choosing sides, and there is nothing that we can do about it.

Maybe its the modders that need to make peace amongst themselves?

Maybe it needs to start there? Just a thought.

If that is the case, then I will never understand this stupid "choose your side" idea that runs around people who mod.

[D-Unit]

Just curious, shouldn't you still be banned then?

[DJEagles]

Let me elaborate more:

Anyone notice that there have been no arguments between us, and the boys at EAMods, lately? That's because we have chosen as a group to take it to the PMs.

Don't for one second think that all this is "news" to us. Don't for one second think they we are sitting around on our asses waiting for **** to happen. It's a constant work in progress, but we have reached a "sort of peace", and I am more then happy with that.

There have been many ideas thrown around behind the scenes, and yes, we have agreed that less moderation is key to making 2008 a great year for this site. But moderation still needs to exist, unless you all want members like Medric, Timay, and Moose, still running around here?

Yes we have been to hard, when we shouldn't have been. We are not perfect people, but if you push me, I am going to push back. I don't troll the forums looking for trouble, but I am going to confront it, if it is taking place.

[KidCavalier23]

Let me elaborate more:

Anyone notice that there have been no arguments between us, and the boys at EAMods, lately? That's because we have chosen as a group to take it to the PMs.

Don't for one second think that all this is "news" to us. Don't for one second think they we are sitting around on our asses waiting for **** to happen. It's a constant work in progress, but we have reached a "sort of peace", and I am more then happy with that.

There have been many ideas thrown around behind the scenes, and yes, we have agreed that less moderation is key to making 2008 a great year for this site. But moderation still needs to exist, unless you all want members like Medric, Timay, and Moose, still running around here?

Yes we have been to hard, when we shouldn't have been. We are not perfect people, but if you push me, I am going to push back. I don't troll the forums looking for trouble, but I am going to confront it, if it is taking place.

It seems like one of the three is still running around here on that list DJ...

[angryrat]

It is a shame that the relationship between the two sites has deteriorated. I signed onto EAMods, not because of hatred of this website, but because on the day it was "opened up" an MVPmods member posted about his new website. I figured the two sites were related and shared a common interest, however one was for baseball and the other for football. A year and a half later, from the distance myself and lots of non-biased members have watched the two sides split further and further apart and it's a shame. There is a such thing as healthy competition, and there is nothing wrong with one side forcing the other to step up and improve and the sites should get back to it. It's about video games.... entertaining ways of passing time, and sports. Save the wars for political forums.

[Kccitystar]

Exactly. I am not trying to antagonize or rile people up, but I just feel that these issues need to be ironed out to move forward into 2008 for another year of productive and hopefully collaborative modding. If that can't happen then I'm really just wasting my time.

[Yankee4Life]

Anyways, good checking in again, and I expect this account to be banned withing the next 5 minutes.

Again, I dont want to see my name mentioned on this site ever again, Timay is banned, and should never be spoken of.

-Dalboys aka Timay

And if this does happen, you guys out there will look at us as d**kheads and a-holes for doing just that.

As for your name mentioned on this site, I don't think anyone goes out of their way to mention it because it's a "hot" topic to talk about. Although I do recall that one guy a few days ago asked who you were and I told them you were a member a few years ago and that was that. Why your name was brought up then I don't know. But trust me, they won't go out of their way to talk about you.

I also have other things to add about this thread that I will not put in here just yet. I will wait until tomorrow when I gather my thoughts.

[abc006]

Think about this ABC for a second. Let's say if you were banned from this site for a particular reason, would the fact that a modder banned you, someone who contributes to the game YOU play, hold more weight than just a member with an administrator tag?

Not if the modder/admin has worse judgment than just the admin. I don't think it matters as much who is doing the banning and moderating, as long as the right people are getting banned and the right things getting moderated. That's what I care about more, and though I don't always agree with some admins' decisions, I doubt anybody else on the site can do much better.

[DJEagles]

I believe the '08 mod is a collaborative effort. If someone's mod is left out, etc....then that is a problem amongst the modders themselves.

Kraw does a great job of combining everyone's efforts into one wonderful mod.

[krawhitham]

Let me elaborate more:

Anyone notice that there have been no arguments between us, and the boys at EAMods, lately? That's because we have chosen as a group to take it to the PMs.

Yesterday

shoutbox

eamods

you

any of that sound familiar

[dalboys]

Let me elaborate more:

Anyone notice that there have been no arguments between us, and the boys at EAMods, lately? That's because we have chosen as a group to take it to the PMs.

Don't for one second think that all this is "news" to us. Don't for one second think they we are sitting around on our asses waiting for **** to happen. It's a constant work in progress, but we have reached a "sort of peace", and I am more then happy with that.

There have been many ideas thrown around behind the scenes, and yes, we have agreed that less moderation is key to making 2008 a great year for this site. But moderation still needs to exist, unless you all want members like Medric, Timay, and Moose, still running around here?

Yes we have been to hard, when we shouldn't have been. We are not perfect people, but if you push me, I am going to push back. I don't troll the forums looking for trouble, but I am going to confront it, if it is taking place.

see here you go mentioning my name again. do I know you? I dont recall you being a moderator or even a member of mvpmods when I was here. So whats the beef? I could see if Y4L was posting this about me, but you, who the hell are you?

Thats whats wrong with this site, you guys cant stop living in the past, I was banned 3 years ago and here you are STILL talking about me, I guess I should feel honored that my name gets dropped on a daily basis.

[DJEagles]

No, no I meant the Admins...the pissing contest I got into with Medric, should never have happened, and again I apologize to you for that.